How to Beat a Photo-Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)


Last year I received a letter in the mail from the Washington D.C DMV claiming I was speeding. As you can see it was one of those Photo-Enforced Speeding Tickets and they had multiple pictures of my CAR. I knew better to just submit and pay a fine like the majority of people do in this country, unfortunately. I am in the habit of not taking “plea deals”, and I am always in the habit of fighting my tickets and NOT pre-paying them so I don’t have to go to court – like many folks do. I just about always record my interactions with the police, whether it’s a traffic stop or not, that way it keeps the entire situation objective, transparent and I can hold the public servant accountable if he/ she violates my rights.

So I got this letter in the mail: 

Front: IMG_0002
Back: IMG_0003.pdf


I can’t recall why I got the next letter, but I think it was because I didn’t respond promptly enough.

Front: IMG_0001

Back: BackPg2

As you can see these criminals issuing these tickets are hoping that the people will just get scared and pay, or not want to waste their time with it. However the government has to provide evidence that it was actually ME driving, it’s their burden of proof. Just because they got pictures of my car doesn’t mean I was driving. So, in response to the first letter, I mailed them back the following letter (copied and pasted):

To Whom it May Concern,

I received a letter claiming I committed a violation of a speeding law in the District of Columbia on 04/21/2012. As per the instructions, I am writing to plead ‘not guilty’ to this charge. Although this option is said to result in this matter going to court; it is my suggestion that the charges simply be dropped. This suggestion comes out of respect for tax payers, and my request that their hard earned money not be wasted in such proceedings. As there is no evidence of my involvement with this alleged ‘crime’, as well as the fact that I am not granted my 6th amendment right to face my ‘accuser’ (a camera); I see no way the government could prove my guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I also see find no legal requirement for me to implicate someone else in this process, as it is the government’s responsibility to prove a person’s guilt. It is also my 5th amendment right to remain silent on the matter.

If it is the government’s decision to move forward in this matter, I would request copies of any evidence the prosecution may have of my involvement in the “offense”; as well as, all maintenance records for the camera(s) involved.


Nathan Cox
United States Army Veteran

HUGE thanks to super activist Meg McLain. I was slammed with work and was about to miss the deadline to mail the rebuttal letter in. She was my roommate at the time, I told her about how I needed it to read and she came up with a fantastic piece. I HIGHLY recommend Meg for any of your Graphic Design or Video Animation needs – She’s stellar!
After sending that letter I received this post card:

MANY months later (much more than 6 months), just the other day I get this post card showing that the ticket is DISMISSED.
Just the other day (A year later) I get this post card:


So PLEASE, NEVER EVER opt to pay these Photo Enforced Speeding AND Red Light tickets! You do NOT have to incriminate yourself OR implicate anyone else. It’s the government’s responsibility to provide evidence that YOU were the person driving, don’t help them in their “investigation”. ALWAYS go to court and fight your tickets, if there is NO VICTIM.. there is NO CRIME!

  • April

    No where in the article did you say if you were indeed speeding. Were you? I am all for fighting something if you were clearly innocent BUT if you were speeding then you should pay the fine, not try to avoid having to pay the ticket.

    • John G. Sutton

      In the UK one is responsible as the listed owner of the vehicle to provide details of the driver in the event of any traffic law violations. A former minister of state, one Chris Hune, was recently impisioned for attempting to pervert the course of justice by having his wife falsely claim that she was driving his car when it was caught in a camera speed trap. She was also banged up.

      • Randy

        Hi John, thankfully we don’t bow to the crown anymore. Cheers!

        • Paul

          As much as we complain of our limited freedoms here in the United States and how our freedoms are being trampled on (and they are), the UK is far worse off. Country wide internet blocks, not allowed to own guns, no car tints allowed, no privacy, no freedom, the government sticks a shaft up everyone’s rear end. No thanks.

          I will continue to fight for every freedom and “right” here in the United States. The war to gain freedom is never over, there are always people looking to take it away so they can have more absolute control over the general public.

    • charlie

      you need to read the constitution… you need to read the 4th amendment and the 6th amendment… federal and state officers, employers and elected officials took and oath of office to support the cosntitutions…. they do not get to make procedural errors and violate the the contitution and the oath of office.

      • Rich

        CHARLIE, Politicians don’t make mistakes? really? That’s very comforting to know, thank you for sharing that FACT.

        Up until now when I thought of ELECTED OFFICIALS words like KICKBACK and BRIBERY and ABUSE would come to mind. In fact, isn’t this EXACTLY what the CAM-SCAM is?

        A PRIVATE COMPANY, not elected officials, are the one’s enforcing the law in this case. How do they get away with it? They kick back, USUALLY, around 60% of the money they EXTORT from Americans!

        The fact that these elected officials took an oath to PROTECT and PRESERVE the Constitution BEFORE getting into bed with PRIVATE CAMERA COMPANIES that tax citizens for driving down the street makes it even more disgusting!

        The people you are referring to, who swore that oath, are now in bed with CAM-SCAM companies raking in money by TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. Our founding fathers would puke if they heard about this scam!

        Read about what the OHIO JUDGE said about traffic cameras about 2 months ago. (Just search OHIO JUDGE TRAFFIC CAMERA SCAM and you’ll find the story).


    • Maria

      April, So I’m assuming every time you look down at your speedometer and see you are speeding, you fine yourself according to the law, and send in your payment. That’s the next most ridiculous step to giving up your rights and letting a camera “catch you” and fine you.

      • Randy

        Nice… LoL

      • Andrew

        No one is caught speeding every time they do. But, if you get caught then pay the fine.

        April’s question, and really mine as well, is “So, were you speeding?”

        It’s one thing to fight abusive government or authority, it’s another to use the system just because you can. The former is laudable, the latter just means you’re acting like a punk.

    • Aaron


    • http://none Larry

      The problem with violating a speeding law, is that it is forced taxation since there is no victim. So continue to live with the other lemmings that follow laws that have no victim or standup and refuse to have your property stolen from you.

      • charlie

        Well put. It was and should still be, We the PEOPLE. Not those crooks that sit in courts, working for the same crooks that want you in their courts. And of course, you are there for their crooks that wear those funny costumes. Those costumes are supposed to make you think it’s OK for them to do anything, and they are always right. The truth is the only VICTIM is us.

    • Freedom1Man

      Why should he pay any sort of extortion money?
      Who was harmed?
      Since when was speeding a cause to collect more tax money?

      Why does the state not have to produce a contract for a civil case?

    • Mike

      As with a large percentage of speed limits across the country, more than likely the posted speed limit was well below the 85th percentile speeds determined by traffic engineering. So even if the gentlemen was traveling above the posted speed limit, he most likely was still travelling at a SAFE speed.

      • Randy

        That argument never works unless you subpoena a traffic engineer to court. That’s a great way to piss off the court. I’ll try it :-)

    • Rich

      When was the last time you drove anywhere without exceeding the speed limit at one time or another? BE HONEST! Just today you were driving at speeds in excess of the posted speed limit and YOU KNOW IT. I know it too, so if you don’t want to tell the truth that’s fine with me. Your comment makes obvious the fact that you simply aren’t getting it.

      The issue here is not whether or not having cameras to document unsafe driving is a good idea. It’s a GREAT idea! With cameras we could be documenting who’s at fault in an accident, or who’s driving in an actual hazardous manner, help fight crime and make the country a safer place!

      The problem is that the US Government has decided to use the cameras instead to fine people for NORMAL DRIVING. If you drive down any road VERY few people are going EXACTLY the speed limit. Most are going a few miles over. At any intersection people commonly proceed through yellow lights at their discretion, in a safe and normal manner. I got a red light ticket for turning right on a red light, which is allowed in Florida, without coming to a complete stop, early in the morning, with no other traffic on the road. I stopped and turned right. BUT my wheels didn’t come to a FULL exact complete stop so I got a ticket (which BTW I never paid, with NO consequence).

      Just like so many other great ideas, this one has been pimped out by some GREEDY STATES with private CAM-SCAM companies all too willing to participate in RIPPING PEOPLE OFF!

      They pretend this is about public safety but it’s really about GOVERNMENT GREED. Did traffic accidents decrease at intersections with red light camera’s? Yes. The camera companies brag about that on their website while conveniently leaving out the part about how rear end collisions tripled at these intersections because of people slamming on the brakes at yellow lights for fear of getting one of their extortion tickets.

      Nor did they mention documented cases where cities actually installed cameras at intersections then SHORTENED THE TIME OF YELLOW LIGHTS at those intersections! Does that sound like public safety or fund raising?

      So April, I’m asking you, if you got a speeding ticket in the mail and you saw that you may have been speeding but you weren’t REALLY speeding, you were just going the same speed as the rest of the traffic on the road. What would YOU do?

      Something tells me that your Goody Two Shoe comment would turn into another comment about how YOU TOO got ripped off by a traffic camera.


      • Sam

        These cameras have almost gotten myself into accidents twice and that is why I am against them. There are so many of them in Miami, FL that I have basically being trained to slam on my brakes when I see a green light turn yellow because of fear of getting a ticket. Now most cases this would be the right thing to do, to break on a yellow light, but every now and then the safest thing to do is keep going. Yet my instinct now is to break break break, NO more tickets. So in two occasions as I am breaking to avoid running a red light I realize that there is no way I will be able to come to a complete stop before the intersection, so i end of pressing the gas to the fullest to get as quickly as possible across that intersection (and I ended up running a red light). If there would not have been a camera at the intersection I wouldn’t have acted that way and simply kept going when I saw yellow and everything would have been fine. So when we talk about making a safer environment, those cameras have made it in 2 occasions way more dangerous.

        • Diana Simmons

          Yes, and that same camera where you avoided by SPEEDING, will get you “speeding”, so either way, you get a ticket. It happen, to my daughter, here in New Orleans. Here in New Orleans we have two parishes, Orleans and Jefferson. In Jefferson they Outlawed the cameras and the people that were fined in Jefferson are going to get a refund, but in Orleans parish, the father of the mayor, a former mayor himself, is a Supreme Court Judge, so the Supreme Court RULED that the “cameras” were “constitutional”. 50 years driving, never, ever, had an accident in four States and two Countries, but 5 months living in Jefferson parish I have had 6 camera tickets going to My Dr.’s appointments. School Zone, little children get out at 2:30 but got tickets at quarter to six, because Cameras are still working, and red light turning from yellow (shortened the yellow time to red) where the intersection was completely clear, got tickets, had hearings told them, and show them evidence that I’m on SSI and very limited income, and was told that HOMELESS people had to pay camera fines. So far, I’ve paid three, but will have trouble with the other three! Orleans Parish has always being notoriously corrupt, but this one takes the cake!

          • Bill Naylor

            In Texas they claim the law is civil and if it is civil then you would have to had signed a contract willingly agreeing to all items in the contract. But since civil law is all contract law and they don’t have one from you, they try to extort under color of law ( means it looks like valid law) by fear and ignorance of law on be half of the public. The way I beat them is I wait until they turn it over to a lawyer debt collecter then I write and challange them to produce the contract which they can’t do because there isn’t one. Here they threaten to stop you from getting your car registered when it comes due. I have yet to not be able to register my car. These people have gotten so greedy Anderson think us little sheeple are to dumb to figure it. They don’t think that we are tired of getting ripped off. To much to share here but you can email me for more if you like. Sincerely Bill

    • Teresa

      April, the District of Columbia government made $78.8 million in 2012 in speed camera fines. With minimal effort, Mr. Cox used his Constitutional rights to fight a $250 ticket. If his speeding were such an egregious crime, why did the D.C. government dismiss the ticket?

    • http://AOL Patrick

      April I disagree with you on this and I am retired Law Enforcement. His fifth amendment right allows him/her to remain silent about their innocence or guilt and in New York State arrests for Violations of Law (minor traffic offenses and some penal law violations such as discon, trespass unlawful possession of marijuana) must be personally witnessed by a Police Officer and not a camera. Nor a video viewed by a Police Officer after the fact. If you are to be held accountable for speeding the state has the burden of proof and should not have to rely on your honesty for a conviction.

    • Divinity

      April: We have a CORRUPT system that thrives on a “taxation by citation” system of revenue generation. It’s contrary to the principles this country was founded on, and it only exists because we tolerate it. It’s people like you that facilitate the petty, nit-picking, nanny state apostasy that calls itself “government.”

      Perhaps instead of worshiping the government god, you need to redefine what truly is and isn’t considered “wrong.”

    • DigitalShadow

      Seriously, April? Presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

    • Randy

      Hi April, that question is irrelevant. It’s not his duty or responsibility to incriminate himself. He has ascerted his rights and invoked the government to back off from his immunities. He has no duty to inform the government of any percieved violation… Which would be in admissible because Nathan doesn’t carry a radar gun, tuning forks or a certificate of calibration of his speedometer in his vehicle every 6months. As a a matter of fact, no one does except the government. And they do it because they are stator idly required to maintained calibrated and constantly checked equipement foe the purpose of law enforcement. If the govt wants to circumvent the constitution on these citations then they have already accounted for the multitudes who will invoke their rights and be released. They are banking on all of the willfully ignorant idiots who are systemically stuck.

    • Greg

      It doesn’t look like he was even operating a vehicle in commerce. Why just assume the law applies to you. Speeding is a transportation code, meaning you have to be operating a vehicle for profit. If he paid the speeding ticket then he should also pay the FAA for flying too low over a roadway. They lack jurisdiction.

  • Trapper Killsmany

    I need help fighting a major wrong committed against myself & my family. I have been wrongfully accused of crimes & wrong doings that I did not do. I have not been allowed to speak or show evidence to anyone or in any court. Everything done against me over the last two years has been done illegally & in violation of my Constitutional rights in Alaska & U.S. Also Alaska & U.S. laws were violated by Troopers, DA’s, & Judges. Including Extortion, Breaking & Enterings, Assaults, Criminal Trespasses, Thefts, False Arrests, False Imprisonment, Kidnapping, Torture, Attempted murders, Harrassments, Defamation of my good character & much more. I have all the evidence, eyewitnesses, court (bail hearings)& state trooper audios (even after they modified them), Trooper reports & they all prove me in the right. I need my record cleared of all these false charges in Alaska & be allowed to return to my peaceful life. I have not broken any laws or done one thing that was illegal. I have been harassed & convicted purely on my looks, my name, & hearsay evidence & denied to speak or show the truth. I do historical reenactments & movie shoots for a living & these have been used against me. They are saying I kill people for a living & other absurd lies. Reenactors of all time periods are the best people around. For more info on this case go to this link. This one you can even leave comments on:

  • http://facebook Beverly Armstrong


  • rebel inc.

    Much love Nate! That is too fucking cool, job well done

  • ward

    I have the same thing happen to me, but the letter went to my parents house which is odd because I am 34 years old and have not lived with my parent since I join the army. thank you for this post I will use this.

    • LC

      Hi, Ward,

      Just curious, did your letter work? did your ticket get dismissed?!

    • Randy

      The car is in your moms name.

  • Mark

    Nice going! I am just confused on something…you mentioned you are “in the habit of not taking ‘plea deals'” but in the letter that you wrote to the government, you said “I am writing to plead ‘not guilty’ to this charge.” I believe that you should never “plead” and instead should seek remedy under common law jurisdiction. You are also correct that you have a right to meet your accuser or a witness, and having a camera as a witness would be pretty awkward to say the least.

    • Diana Simmons

      Yeah, but when you request a hearing, they confront you with the FILM of your car as EVIDENCE…

      • Bill Naylor

        Never go to their court and never request a hearing. Wait until the lawyer debt collecters send you a threatening letter. Then write them back and demand the original contract which they don’t have. They tell you its civil and since it really is civil they have to produce a contract you willingly and knowingly signed. Demand a certified copy of the contract the camera company signed with the gov’t entity who sent you the violation letter. Then tell them it is felony fraud to get money under false pretenses. If you want more info come back to this blog sight. Maybe Randy will help us exchange emails or however it works. Sorry as I’m not familiar with how this all works.

    • Randy

      You mean in an equity court?

  • Name

    Rock on brother!

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  • Conrad

    I did a similar thing here in Canada. I was pulled over by a peace officer and told him no crime had occured as under common law, someone had to suffer a loss or be injured, he said I broke a statue, I said doesn’t apply to me I am not a government employee. I still got the ticket wrote a letter to the same effect, never heard from the crown (the ADA or DA) and told them that if I didn’t hear from them by X date that the charges were considered to be dropped., never receieved a reply and there were no charges on my DL when I went to change it.

    • Randy

      ..and then you were arrested a year later for not bowing. :-)

  • Roger Avants

    New Mexicans beware on this! I took the same approach concerning “confronting my accuser, and being placed in the driver seat”. In New Mexico, the camera is considered a “silent witness” and since the OWNER is responsible for the legal operation of the vehicle, YOU are as good as in the driver seat.
    I beat the ticket, and had it dismissed; however, 2 months ago (5 years after the fact), a collection agency for Albuquerque contacted me, and demanded payment for the ticket. As my records are all in storage, and I am in Costa Rica, this is going to be difficult to resolve now.

    • Randy

      Roger, either your an idiot or your a cop. Which one?

  • Jordan Page

    Nate, as always, you are a complete badass.

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  • Gutsy

    Were you actually speeding though? I noticed that you didn’t respond to April’s comment. That’s pretty dishonest if you were actually breaking the law and just don’t feel like paying. Your rights weren’t violated, you broke the law and got caught.

    If you weren’t actually speeding, then way to go. But if you were, man up and pay your fine and stop speeding.

    • Teresa

      “Your rights weren’t violated, you broke the law and got caught.”

      His rights would’ve been violated had he paid the ticket.

      • Bill Naylor

        What law, civil or criminal?

    • Chairman Mao

      This guy and April would have made wonderful party members! Need more patriots like this to follow any law I please!

  • Bruce

    I agree with your sentiment, but you’re talking about a 6th Amendment issue, not a 4th.

  • cynthia

    I commend you on this! Wow what a victory! Whether you were actually speeding or not to me is irrelevent..its the police’s job to catch you breaking a law…not some camera so this is great and I will share with everyone I know! Great great post!

  • Dano

    I just received a letter and speeding ticket violation notice from Cedar Rapids Iowa where my wife and I were driving through to an out-of town wedding. The letter did include 2 photo’s of my car and close-up of my license plate stating I was driving 13 miles over the posted limit.
    I will be using much of this text from Nathans letter to fight this ticket and not pay the $75 fine.
    I will be sure to follow up and tell you what if this ticket was dismissed.

    • MDub

      How did this turn out? Did you get off the hook?

    • Ali

      Same thing happened to me. Looking for advice. Any updates?

      • Bill Naylor

        Wait until the lawyer debt collecter sends you a threatening letter then write them and ask for the original contract or debt instrument. Also demand that they produce a certified. Copy of the contract between the camera company and the government agency that wrote you the letter in the first place. Then tell them that trying to get money under false pretenses is felony fraud and they could be guilty of being involved in champless. I think I spelled champless wrong. Tell them that extortion under color of law is a felony and anyone aiding and abetting in such can be sued in federal court. Lastly tell them in civil law no contract means no ability to bring suit in court. That’ts it. I used this approach to stop one of the most powerful lawyer debt collecters from collecting on a credit card debt. They wrote me back apoligised and promised not to bother me again.

        • dd

          Sounds too easy. Can you post the reply?

  • Constitutional Reset from VA in NC, Co.

    ‘Constitutional Reset’ as it applies to shake-downs in VA on a ‘reckless driving’ infraction:

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    • Barney

      Interesting that you refer the DC Gov’t as “Criminals” because they issued you a ticket for going greater than 11 mph over the speed limit, and you and others seem to think this is a “victimless” crime… I guess you feel you only need to obey what laws you agree with.

      I served for 22 years as a volunteer firefighter and I can attest to the fact that there are a LOT of crashes that are caused by speeding… “Victimless Crime”? Yeah, right. Tell that to the family of the innocent LAW-ABIDING drivers that you end up crashing into!

      If more people put half as much effort into being responsible drivers instead of finding and publishing ways to “beat” the penalty, maybe these methods of enforcement wouldn’t be needed.

      • Randy

        I agree. I wouldn’t call them criminals, Barney. I would use “clandestine organization”. This is not about ways to beat the penalty – it’s about the application in asserting our constitutional rights. The govt can not break the constitutional law to enforce a statutory law. That’s a COLOR OF LAW abuse and a Title 42-1983 civil rights violation., bro.

        • charlie

          Exactly right. It’s a scam these costume crooks pull. But it’s just part of the crap coming out of the WH now.

      • Bill Naylor

        Barney you need to wake up and smell the corruption. These cameras are not about right or wrong or someone breaking a legitimate law. They are about scaming money from the sheeple and especially sheep that think the government we have today is legit. All government has been converted into corporations and therefor you don’t violate law but corporate statutes. Everything is corupt. There is no more U.S.A since FDR put HJR192 in place for the bankruptcy of the U.S.A in 1933. Representative James Traficant from Ohio put it into the congresional record about the bankruptcy. Look him up on the web. But frankly I doubt that you will because there will always be people who don’t research anything and all they see is the law which they never question. God bless

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  • Owen

    You were caught speeding and you just wanted to cry about it until they dismissed it. Congrats on not stepping up to your actions like a man? Just goes to show what kind of guidance you were raised by. If you cry and throw a temper tantrum you will have your way. How honorable. Haha

    • Randy

      How long have you been a cop, Owen?

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  • susancarol

    If you are really gone speed and break the law without any proper reason the you must have to pay the ticket.

  • Lola Antun

    I got a red-light ticket in Knoxville, TN Does anyone know if this will really work in TN before I try it and get fined even more? It seems some states have a found a way to get around it.

    • Randy

      Hi April, that question is irrelevant. It’s not his duty or responsibility to incriminate himself. He has ascerted his rights and invoked the government to back off from his immunities. He has no duty to inform the government of any percieved violation… Which would be in admissible because Nathan doesn’t carry a radar gun, tuning forks or a certificate of calibration of his speedometer in his vehicle every 6months. As a a matter of fact, no one does except the government. And they do it because they are stator idly required to maintained calibrated and constantly checked equipement foe the purpose of law enforcement. If the govt wants to circumvent the constitution on these citations then they have already accounted for the multitudes who will invoke their rights and be released. They are banking on all of the willfully ignorant idiots who are systemically stuck.

      • charlie


    • Camera Shy

      Lola Antun…I also received a red-light ticket in Knoxville, TN. Did you use this approach? If so, how did it turn out for you?

  • Lola Antun

    Sorry this comment is not a comment pls ignore

  • Jason

    It’s like the old saying goes, “Those who drive like a**hole, look for any loophole they can.”

    • Randy

      Let me guess… Your here to protect and serve?

  • hector

    the only reason he got off the hook is because he included the title “United States Army Veteran” under his name. the hearing examiner probably felt bad for the guy and decided to dismiss the charge. If anyone else had written that simplistic statement, that person would certainly still be going to court and paying the $250.

    • Randy

      Wrong hector. It works NOT a few times or sporadically. Asserting your constitution rights works every time. Just like when you invoke Miranda rights to keep your pie hole shut.

      • natalie

        I tried this letter almost exactly and got a letter back explaining all the was this letter doesn’t apply and that I can come to court or pay the fine :(

        • dd


          • natalie


        • dd

          I think what happened to you is more typical than what happened to Cox. I think he just got lucky and not exactly discovered a legal weakness of any sort.

      • Red Light Camera

        Wrong Randy, My friend and I tried to assert our constitutional rights and were told by the judge and the prosecutor that the lower courts have no authority to rule on rights that you claim are constitutional UNLESS that argument has previously passed the SUPREME COURT (Either state or federal).

        At least that’s how it is here in THE PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF NEW JERSEY.

  • Jade

    I was so shocked to read the blog through someone’s Facebook. What a bad way to teach people to fight against the law when you are the guilty party. I totally agreed with Barney’s comment on 12-11-2013. There is no victim until someone gets hurt. You were lucky that no one got hurt in your case. What will you feel if someone speed and hurt you or your family? If you did speed and got caught, you should face the consequences.
    Remember the conscience, not the law should define one’s behavior/action. The world will be much better if we all teach our children the right way instead of argue/cheat their way out! It’s so important to teach the children right from wrong when they are little.

    • Randy

      Who said he was guilty?

  • Scott Crawford

    You sir are a jackass, you broke the law and were caught. Instead of showing HONOR and INTEGRITY ( sound familiar? They should, considering they are some of the Army values you obviously didn’t learn.) You instead decided that you were too good for the law. What happened to being responsible for your actions? I guess that is someone else’s responsibility. Next time you try some bullshit like this do me the favor of not using you supposed military status when commuting such cowardly acts of fraud. You are a disgrace to the honorable men and women who serve this country.

    • Randy

      Hi Scott, have you ever gotten a parking ticket in a Walmart parking lot?

    • Bill Naylor

      Gee Scott you make it sound like a person who exercises his or her constitutional rights and shares his successes is not honorable and is a coward. And you consider that fraud? Scott you wouldn’t be one of them thar gov’t plants that ridicules and distorts the facts to make people who at are not politically correct look stupid. You seem to be one who never questions the law which is what a dictatership wants. You sir are to be commended for being a good little sheeple and comrade. And mole?

      • argghhh

        scott probably thinks that govt grants rights. personally, i find it a whoooole lot more honorable (and sexy) to call out a tyrannical govt

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    Thanks for sharing!

  • DocHoliday916

    In response both to Jason’s posting on 11 Dec 2013 and April’s posting on 10 May 13; both of you agregiously miss the Constitutional protections. First, the burden of proof rests with the State to prove guilt. It is the driver and NOT the car who has Constitutional protections under the 5th and 6th Amendments. Life liberty and property may not be taken without due process of law. Accordongly, if the state cannot prove WHO was driving the car at the time of the violation then where is their case to take money from the owner of the car? Even if the owner is driving the car, he/she is not compelled under the 5th Amendment ot give testimony against themselves OR should be complelled to do the State’s job and provide a name of whoever was driving the car at the time of the alleged violation. Since when was a Constitutional protection considered a loophole? JAson and April’s point of view portend a dangerous erosion of civil liberties protecting the indivuidual against the erroneous practices of a State that wishes to shortcut due process through intimidation.

  • bob

    man up and pay your fine and stop speeding.

    • Randy

      Bob, cross the thin blue line. It will set you free.

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  • Angela

    How would this work for a red light ticket? Along with photos, there is also a video…Is it still possible to get around that?

  • khope

    Someone needs to mention that in certain states this will not work. Illinois has a law that states only the license plate needs to be seen and the owner of the car will receive the ticket, no matter who is driving. People skipping out on tickets like this is the reason why more states are becoming more and more strict. If you were doing say, 15 over, just man up and pay it. If you were only 5 over, then whatever, that’s not ticket worthy. But if you’re doing this because you don’t agree with the law, you should keep in mind that the absolute worst way to protest a law is to refuse to follow it. For those with legit proof that this system is flawed, petition your congressmen. Include actual facts and statistics in a petition and start gathering as many signatures as possible. Enough people speak out and protest the RIGHT way, and change will (someday) be made. Continuing to not follow the law as a form of protest is just going to get you in possible trouble and show lawmakers that the law has a point.

    • Bill Naylor

      What law, civil or criminal? They claim its civil and if its civil there has to be a contract willingly and knowingly signed by you! You didn’t sign any contract. Never go to their little kangaroo court, wait til they turn it over to lawyer debt collecters. Then write to the debt collecters. And demand the contract they don’t have! And tell them that trying to get money under false pretenses is felony fraud. They will leave you alone!

      • dd

        When you sign for a driver’s license that is when you do it….

    • Rand Cadmus

      That’s why you need to go to Illinios “COPBLOCKS” website and see how they get down over there. This is Virginia “COPBLOCK”

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  • skylar

    I copied this letter and changed the wording to fit my red light ticket of $160 in Haines City, Fl. I got a letter responding that I had a court date scheduled. I can either pay the original fine plus $50 to cancel my court appearance or show up and risk having to pay $250 in court fines if I lose. Now I’m concerned about what to do.

    • Virginia Cop Block

      fight it in court using the same premise!!!!

  • Dougie

    Before anyone in the District of Columbia relies on this, you should read the Agomo case, which is directly on point. The case stands for the proposition that photo violations constitute civil and not criminal penalties and therefore are not bound by the constitution. I disagree with the reasoning, but I know from experience in unsuccessfully fighting a photo violation that the arguments referenced above will not work.

    Here is the case:,9,130,140

    • Bill Naylor

      If its civil they have to produce a contract that you willingly and knowingly signed. No contract, no ability to take you to court. These people are the criminals and they lie. You know how you can tell if a lawyer is lying? His lips are moving. So true. Never go to court for traffic camera letters. They are all civil. Just wait for the debt collecters to write you then write back and demand the contract they don’t have.

  • Beat it

    Thanks for the tip. Beat my ticket for the exact same camera. Used the basics of your letter, but changed it a bit. Asked for more back up info. It is hard to find that you can fight these tickets without having to pay in advance or having to appear in person.

  • Jen M

    Received citation for $100 for Speeding 11-15 over limit in 01/2014. Sent the above letter (updated with my info, of course). Received letter this month 03/2014 claiming still liable – fine assessed.

    • Bill Naylor

      Its civil not criminal. Civil requires them to have a contract you willingly and knowingly signed. Never go to their kangaroo court, wait for debt collecters to send you a letter and then write back and demand certified copys of the contract they don’t have.

      • dd

        What is your basis for saying that? Court citations please.

  • Brian

    I got one of these today…but they also have a clear picture of my face.

    • Virginia Cop Block

      You can still try and utilize your 6th Amendment right to “face (and question) your accuser, which in this case is a machine…

  • will

    Everyone on here who says man up and accept the consequence, you are fools. Like many have already said in previous post,everybody speeds at one point or another in their many years of driving.Issuing tickets is all about the state/federal government receiving more money. Crimes don’t stop because you fine citizens. Keep that in mind and also for those who think using the law to your advantage is cheating, wrong, or the pu**y away out, your all idiots and probably never paid attention when you took American history in high school. The constitution and the laws where placed to prevent injustice, corruption, wrong doing, etc. =) Have a nice day (=

    • Red Light Camera

      Hi Will,
      We agree. Please search #FINNLINE to see how we address the core safety issue. We can make roads safer and eliminate red light cameras.

    • Winnipeg

      I tried going this rout and express my sixth amendment, basically the judge said “Unless the vehicle was reported stolen at the time the photo was taken I have no reason but to hold the owner of the vehicle responsible”
      Then basically saying it without saying it told me to
      shut the fuck up and pay up and thanks for waisting their time.

    • Lauren

      UMM if you dont do anything at all to enforce the law, everyone will do it all the time, creating more crashes, creating more death and injuries, what part of that do you not get?

  • Joe

    I’m from the uk and it’s true that in this country you have to by law say who was driving
    or face worse charges. It’s the only crime in this country where you have to incriminate
    yourself by admitting it was you driving. It’s wrong that murderers, rapists and paedophiles
    have more legal rights and protection than some one who momentarily drifts over the speed

  • jamie

    Wow, you really are just a waste of space. Thank god you didn’t get in a wreck and seriously injure someone while you were so carelessly speeding. If you commit a crime you should own up to it. But I guess you are to big of a coward to admit to your mistakes. What’s next “How to get away with murder.”
    Please use your brain before posting such irresponsible crap.

    • godisafairytale

      Get off your high horse. He was going 11-15 mph over the speed limit. If the limit was 20, then he could’ve been doing 31, which can be quite safe. You have no idea whether he was careless or irresponsible. I just got a ticket for the same thing and I drive very safely. At the time, I was on a major 4 lane road with a broad shoulder so it’s as wide as 5 lanes, that was almost empty, in broad daylight, driving 38mph. I have never hurt anyone driving and have been complimented by many passengers as being an exceptionally safe driver.

      Getting out of a speeding ticket is like getting away with murder like holding hands is almost prostitution. Your analogy is bad and you act like you’ve never made a mistake in your perfect life.

    • bill

      next time you look down a your speedometer and see you are speeding find a cop and report yourself don’t be a coward.

  • charlie

    Seems to me that I actually took the time to read the crap the crooks create. Bottom line, Texas Motor Vehicle Code defines driver, driving, vehicle, and etc as a Commercial activity. Look at your drivers license. It will say you are a class C commercial driver. But if you don’t drive commercially, like a taxi, delivery truck, or that, but you actually travel from and to where ever you want to go, you are free to travel without any license. Those BS codes apply to commercial crap. Supreme says so, not me.

    • charlie

      Sorry, I left out Court. As in Supreme Court of the USA. I think it has been tried 6 or 7 times and they still say the same thing. The legal definition of a license is giving someone (as in you) permission to do something that would be illegal otherwise. Don’t believe me? Just check the law dictionaries for (a) license.

  • Yon

    Because the law is different in Illinois, I can not state that the camera does not prove I am the one driving since the ticket is mailed to the owner of the car. However, I can argue that I am not granted my 6th amendment right to face my ‘accuser’ (a camera). Is this correct??? Would this be effective? I have heard that there this issue is in IL courts now.

    • Virginia Cop Block

      You can argue you weren’t driving. Just because you are the owner of the car, doesn’t mean you were driving the day they allegedly caught you doing XYZ.
      Reach out to us via Facebook Private message for more assistance

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  • Sean

    C. Offense
    1. The vehicle owner shall be liable for a fine as imposed below if such vehicle crosses a
    marked stop line or the intersection plane at a system location when the traffic signal
    for that vehicle’s direction is emitting a steady red light or red arrow.

    2 The vehicle owner shall be liable for a fine as imposed below if such vehicle travels
    at a speed above the posted speed limit through the marked intersections.

    3. The citation will in no event be sent or reported to the Iowa Department of
    Transportation or similar department of any state for the purposes of being added to
    the vehicle owner’s driving record.

    According to Muscatine, Iowa in their municipal ordinance,…The vehicle “OWNER” is held liable. This seems to create little room for the “burden of proof” argument and “prove I was driving”. I guess if you “weren’t” driving, you would be fined and then have to recover your fine from the person who “was” driving. Please tell me how to over come this as I am currently sitting on a ticket…otherwise I think I am stuck…nice job Muscatine, I think I’ll wipe my ass with the check I send them…

  • RedLightCamera

    Here is a better argument:

    Support the #FINNLINE Project today and help us fix this problem.

    We can make roads safer AND take down the Red Light Camera industry at the same time!

    It’s a question of: Who wants to complain? VS. Who wants to do something about it?

    Send me a friend request and I’ll show you how we are going to do it.

    (No! I’m not selling anything).

    Get the facts! Go to my face book page and check out my post titled “TAKE THIS TO COURT”

    If you like it, tell a friend and send me friend requests.

    We need your help.

    If you want to do more than complain ,,,, then get off your butt right now and we will show you what you can do about it!

  • SAMO

    has anyone tried this in NEW YORK? does this really work? i was given a ticket with my car and the red light states it had been red for 0000.2 seconds, when of my vehicle crossed the intersection. i refuse to pay 80$ to some company (not even the county government) for 000.2 seconds. someone help!

    • RedLightCamera

      We can’t help with speeding tickets but we have the iron clad argument that kills Red Light Camera tickets.

      If your interested, Check out our facebook post

    • RedLightCamera

      Hi SAMO,
      Sorry for my duplicate reply. I’m new to PATCH.
      Were you asking me if anyone has tried the FINNLINE argument in NY?
      I don’t know.
      But if you look at our argument you will see that it should work everywhere. (Why are people guessing? Why are people’s perception of time and rate of travel being held to the same standard of precision as digital equipment?)
      We are not given a fair chance. It’s impossible for us to obey. The best we can do is guess. Would you like to scan the ticket (both sides) to us? WE ARE NOT ATTORNEYS but we would like to see if we can help you. Our website is on our #FINNLINE Video on You Tube
      Be sure to put PLEASE HELP in the memo field.

    • Virginia Cop Block

      Yes it should work in NY as long as the photo is not of your FACE. MANY folks all around the U.S have used the letter, verbatim or customized and have let us know it works.
      IT works because it’s Constitutionally sound! (- Nate)

      • natalie

        I used this letter 2 weeks ago and just got a letter back from DC courts basically saying “no sorry you have to pay the fine or come to court”

        funny, because it actually wasn’t me in the car driving!

        I attached the letter here – any advice on something I can send back?

        • natalie

          I keep trying to attach my letter, but it doesn’t seem to be working… Any other way I can contact you or send you it? Sorry I’m new to this site

          • godisafairytale

            @disqus_aKJWddqvNn:disqus – it worked both times, I can see your letter clearly.

        • Virginia Cop Block

          Go to court and fight it.
          Please contact our FB Page for further information
          – Nathan

  • Jaycee

    So these photo violations are civil just like parking tickets correct? I know for a fact that numerous unpaid civil fines, like parking tickets, can result in not being able to re-register your vehicle legally or your vehicle being booted until fines are paid. Can this happen with unpaid photo-enforced tickets? I want to fight, but I just don’t want my wife to have to deal with our car being booted or not properly registered when we don’t pay.

  • Monte Goodyk

    Thanks! Great article!

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  • Fred Knapp Copier Guru

    by running the red light, you potentially could have killed someone. i am against cops nearly always, but perhaps you should think of the consequences of your actions.

    • argghhh

      you do know that jurisdictions that have installed these electronic snitches have intentionally shortened the duration of the yellow in order to reap more revenue from red light ‘runners’ thus creating an increase in rear end collisions?

      • Red Light Camera

        Yes, that’s an old argument (and a good one) but it’s not good enough to eliminate the cameras OR resolve the safety issue.

        Get the facts that do.
        Go to our website (and send us a friend request in Facebook)

      • Red Light Camera

        I invite you to do something about red light cameras.
        Nominate George Finn of for this award. (even if we don’t win, your help serves to increase the volume on our argument against red light cameras)

        Secretary Foxx is looking for the next
        Transportation Champions of Change, innovators driving the future of
        transportation. Submit your nominees by midnight Thursday, August 1, 2015,
        using this link:

    • Red Light Camera

      WE AGREE that running red lights causes accidents, injury and death.
      THE REAL PROBLEM is that drivers are forced to guess at the yellow traffic light and red light cameras do not help people make better decisions (to stop or go).

      IF IT’S REALLY ABOUT SAFETY Then “You” should do three things.
      1) GET THE FACTS: Search #FINNLINE (or read our TAKE THIS TO COURT note on facebook)
      2) SIGN OUR PETITION To get rid of red light cameras -Everywhere-
      3) FRIEND REQUEST: Send us a friend request on Facebook. The more friends we have the louder our voice is across the nation.

      SAFETY FIRST: Even the most corrupt politician knows that “Safety First” is the only leg he has to stand on. When we show them a “Safety First Solution” that gives drivers a fair chance to obey the law, we have them in a box that they can’t get out of.

      WE GUARANTEE THIS. If you address the fundamental issue (eliminate guessing at the yellow light) you will eliminate red light camera’s because giving drivers a fair chance to obey the law will make the cameras unprofitable.

      HOW LONG? How long is it going to take for people to catch on to this fundamental (and simple) solution?

      • Fred Knapp Copier Guru

        when you drive the speed limit, you will easily stop whejn you see a yellow light.

        • Red Light Camera

          Fred Knapp Copier Guru, With all due respect. You misunderstand the issue. I drive the speed limit and the “holier than thou” excuse doesn’t cut it. It does not matter what speed you’re driving. For every speed there is what is called the DILEMMA ZONE. It is the distance from the stop line where the driver is unsure of the calculation to know if it’s safer to stop or safer to keep going.

          The problem exists If the driver first see’s the yellow when they first enter that dilemma zone. The problem is exasperated by the fact that drivers have no idea how much time yellow lights give them to make that decision. (Every yellow light is timed differently). This makes the dilemma zone larger and includes more drivers at the same time.

          Ultimately the core problem is that the government is forcing drivers to play a GUESSING GAME. And safety will not improve until that stops.

          If we continue to leave this calculation up to drivers then we will continue to get different answers (As a hundred people a question and you’ll get 100 answers). The solution is to stop asking questions and start giving the answer.

          Try doing some research before you comment. Go to our website CIVILLIBERTY101.COM and get the facts.

          • Fred Knapp Copier Guru

            why is it ‘holier than thou’? should we obey the law or not?

          • Red Light Camera

            Hi Fred, Thank you for your patience.
            You work in sound bytes right?

            Here it is:
            1) Yes we should obey the law but forcing drivers to guess at the yellow light makes it IMPOSSIBLE for them to obey the law.

            You can get all the details at the website

            2) The “Holier than thou” comment refers to people who pretend they do everything perfectly (like guessing).

            Perhaps you ALWAYS make the right decision and never make mistakes. But your safety is not dependant only on what you do.

            You need to make sure the drivers around you make better decisions too.

            Better aids to navigation help drivers make better decisions.

            Your argument is like saying: Why do we need lines on the road? Why can’t people simply stay in their own lane?

            Better aides to navigation adds precision to our perception.

            Now do you get it?

          • TwelveOhOne

            I liked the traffic lights I saw in Brazil. They were similar to racing lights; there were five red lights on the left (aligned vertically); five green lights on the right; and a single yellow between the two strips, at the bottom. Something like this:

            R G
            R G
            R G
            R G
            R Y G

            When the traffic is moving, the top right green is lit. When it’s nearing time for that direction to stop, the lit green light “moves down” and then moves to yellow, and then the red lights are lit. The same happens in reverse, so drivers can much more easily calculate the dilemma zone.

            Since I saw that, I’ve seen something similar implemented here, on the “walk/don’t walk” signs; they now have a timer that counts down the seconds until it changes. A timer would likely work better for traffic as well, since it’s “based on time” — two different traffic lights might move the above lights at a different rate, but if it’s seconds-based, it’ll likely be more accurate.

          • Red Light Camera

            That’s nice but it still doesn’t address the core issue. (The system is still too SUBJECTIVE in nature. In addition, the system you speak of is much more expensive than the cost of paint and signs.)

            Also: the dilemma zone exists because we are asking drivers a question (What do you think you should do when you see the yellow)

            If we stop asking questions and provide a clear decision point (#StopGoLine) then we give drivers an OBJECTIVE method for decision making (If you reach the #StopGoLine before the light turns yellow then you are required to clear the intersection ahead. Alternatively, if you don’t reach it then you are required to stop.)

          • Sean

            This sounds like an excuse for people that don’t follow traffic laws or are otherwise poor drivers. I’m not claiming that every law is perfect and problem free by a long shot. But the traffic signal law is simple. When the light turns yellow, if you have time to stop safely, then STOP. That doesn’t mean speed up. If you’re in a large truck that can’t stop as easily, then you need to drive a little slower. Simple.

            As far as the “dilemma zone”.. Any experienced driver will know if they have enough time to slow down and stop. Traffic lights timing is rather universal and based on the speed limit of the roads they are controlling. Even with bad weather, laws generally restrict speeds to what is reasonably safe.

            So if are driving a certain speed and a yellow light pops up and you are far enough back to safely stop, then you must stop. If you aren’t far enough back, than you continue through. There should NEVER be slamming on the breaks. If you do, then you likely did something wrong – over reacted to a yellow light or you were speeding and would have had to go through a red light (since it wasn’t timed for the speed you were traveling). The only other time could be due to drivers around you making similar mistakes, but if you are behind another car that slams on it’s breaks, state law (at least in Virginia) says you need to have a big enough gap between you to safely stop. If you can’t safely stop, you did something wrong.

            I’ve been driving for about 12 years and the only times I’ve ever felt that a yellow light was a “Guessing game” was when I was in a rush to get some where and the guessing pertained to whether or not I could make it through the light before it turned red. Priority is supposed to be given to stopping in those instances, not trying to beat the light. Therefore I was wrong and would have been at fault if I had caused an accident.

            Red Light Cameras don’t make the system any less safe. Bad drivers do.

          • Milord Cutter

            Sean, you are absolutely wrong. Traffic lights are often deliberately timed to increase the volume of tickets written. (See my post above.)

          • Red Light Camera

            Milford Cutter is correct. You can’t trust everyone to do things the same any more than you can expect everyone to understand a simple concept. (LIKE: If you give drivers better tools to make safer decisions, you will increase safety on the road)

            There are just some people who will never get it and they will go their own way because of their own selfish and/or myopic perspectives.

          • Red Light Camera

            Sean, You don’t understand the nature of the problem. The fact that every driver has a different opinion is the source of the problem. Once you install a clearly identifiable decision point (#StopGoLine) you eliminate all differences of opinion (and most of the arguing).

            Your 12 year of driving only shows that your a novice compared to those of us who have been driving for over 40 years.

            You also have no experience using the system we propose. We do! Experience makes a world of difference.

            The system we are talking about (paint and signs) is a CHEAP way to ENABLE MORE PEOPLE TO OBEY the law. Why not use some of that red light camera money to pay for it? (Try to argue your way out of that!).

            So go ahead and keep supporting red light cameras. Some day you will wake up to the truth we are trying to help you see.

          • Sean

            LoL, there already is a stop bar at just about any intersection with a traffic light. I know for a fact that at least our local law enforcement that review the footage on those cameras to confirm or reject them, reject any shots where any part of the vehicle is past the stop bar when it turns red. Of course get to that point, you’ve still grossly ignored the yellow light, but the fact is we already lines that tell you when to stop, which is not a new thing. If there isn’t a stop bar, there needs to be.. no question.

            Besides, painting lines farther back only causes more issues for vehicles going under the speed limit, for whatever reason. They go because they are in front of the line but because all that is based on a 45 mph speed, they are essentially running the red. And what about with in climate weather… stopping distances change. Lets not over complicate things and over-rely on traffic engineers to make us safe. At a certain point we need to do that ourselves.

            Also, I never said I was in support of red light cameras. I’m just saying they don’t make things less safe – in my opinion. That being said, I’m not against new ideas, and wouldn’t mind seeing the extra stop lines tried out somewhere to see how it goes.. my guess is it wouldn’t work though.

          • Red Light Camera

            RE: Sean’s comment “LoL, there already is a stop bar”

            HERE IS WHAT YOU ARE MISSING: I have 10 YEARS EXPERIENCE USING THE SYSTEM I AM SUGGESTING. It simply WORKS for those who want to use it. It’s GREAT!!!

            Arguing “WHAT EVERY DRIVER SHOULD DO” is the kind of thinking people need when they are living in Wonderland .

            Your decision to stop in time for the stop bar MUST be made the instant the yellow light turn on. By the time you get to the stop bar, it’s too late to be thinking about what to do. With our system you have MORE ADVANCED WARNING and you have a VISIBLE DECISION POINT. Both of these factors assist in making the roads safer.

            The #FINNLINE – #StopGoLine concept is a TOOL that helps all drivers who WANT to obey the law. It gives them a GUAGE that they can use to perfectly time the light (providing the are going at least the posted speed limit OR up to 10 MPH BELOW the speed limit)

            THIS GUAGE IS FLEXIBLE: If local studies show drivers need a larger window, then the system can be modified (longer time on light with a corresponding change in distance) OR drivers can be educated (Minimum speed limit signs can be posted)

            The key is this. If you get a signal that says RED SIGNAL AHEAD then that signal better be red when you get there OR ELSE the signal looses it’s value and people ignore it.

            RIGHT NOW IT’S A FREE FOR ALL. Anything is better than that.

            Suppose a traffic study shows that 90% of all drivers are within +/- 5mph of the posted speed limit and at +/- 10 mph you get 99% of the drivers.

            Would you say the tool is invalid because 100% of the drivers don’t use it (even though they could)?

            IS OUR IDEA PERFECT? No system is idiot proof. The best you can achieve is idiot resistant. Our system works for those who WANT OR NEED EXTRA HELP to make the critical stop/go decision. (What’s wrong with that?).

            CAN YOU BEAT THIS SYSTEM? Sure you can but you will have to be speeding up while everyone around you is slowing down. But now your fair game for cops or cameras and we could care less if they catch those people. Why can’t we install the #FINNLINE and then TRIPPLE the fines for people who violate the red? Any problems with that idea?

            You also need a clear line of sight through the intersection because if the driver in front of you is stopping then you are trapped to do the same.

            RE INCLEMENT WEATHER: The distance and time should be calculated for the HEAVIEST VEHICLE rated to be on the road AT THE SPEED LIMIT. Do you think that should include a safety factor for inclement weather? I do too. There is ZERO impact to overall throughput.

        • Milord Cutter

          Wrong! There was a recent court case in a Florida community where it was determined the town council had decided to shorten the time on the amber lights in town specifically because “they were not getting enough ticket revenue.” Traffic laws should be designed for safety, but traffic enforcement is all about the money.

          • Red Light Camera

            Milford Cutter, I invite you to do something about it.
            Nominate George Finn of for this award. (even if we don’t win, your help serves to increase the volume on our argument against red light cameras)

            Secretary Foxx is looking for the next
            Transportation Champions of Change, innovators driving the future of
            transportation. Submit your nominees by midnight Thursday, August 1, 2015,
            using this link:

            Let us know if you need help completing the forms

      • scoobydooz

        In the State of Oregon, a yellow light under article 186.16 a yellow light means stop…. So this would not work with the hole I DIDN’T KNOW IF I SHOULD GO OR NOT!! IT MEANS STOP!!!!!!

        • [email protected]

          Right! When the light turns yellow in the middle of an intersection you should slam on your brakes and stop in the middle of the road. You’re a smart one @skylarmorris:disqus

          • Sean

            If stopping leaves you in the middle of the intersection then you are supposed to continue through the yellow light. That’s why the yellow light exists!! – to allow for people in that exact situation to safely get through the intersection, and for no other reason. If you don’t know that than you have no business driving. Period.

  • Red Light Camera

    WE AGREE that running red lights causes accidents, injury and death.
    THE REAL PROBLEM is that drivers are forced to guess at the yellow traffic light and red light cameras do not help people make better decisions (to stop or go).

    IF IT’S REALLY ABOUT SAFETY Then “You” should do three things.
    1) GET THE FACTS: Search #FINNLINE (or read our TAKE THIS TO COURT note on facebook)
    2) SIGN OUR PETITION To get rid of red light cameras -Everywhere-
    3) FRIEND REQUEST: Send us a friend request on Facebook. The more friends we have the louder our voice is across the nation.

    SAFETY FIRST: Even the most corrupt politician knows that “Safety First” is the only leg he has to stand on. When we show them a “Safety First Solution” that gives drivers a fair chance to obey the law, we have them in a box that they can’t get out of.

    WE GUARANTEE THIS. If you address the fundamental issue (eliminate guessing at the yellow light) you will eliminate red light camera’s because giving drivers a fair chance to obey the law will make the cameras unprofitable.

    HOW LONG? How long is it going to take for people to catch on to this fundamental (and simple) solution?

  • Rosy

    Red Light Cameras are a big scam !
    read it and weep/ copy and paste the link below into your browser

    Rosy the Gym Rat

    • Red Light Camera

      Hi Rosy, Will you help us eliminate these cameras around the country?
      Visit our website and sign our petition.
      Send us a friend request in Facebook.
      We will work to make your voice louder.

  • Matt Griffith

    Nathan Cox. If you are reading this please contact me. I tried using your method to get out of a speeding ticket and it is not working. They want me to go to court and the info I asked for to check out the radar does not seem right. My email is [email protected]

    PLEASE! Do not contact me unless you are Nathan Cox or you can help. I don’t need anyone opinion or storys. I am from Washingtion state.

    • dd

      DId he contact you?

  • Javier E Vanegas

    So I just sent them a similar letter as this one. I hope I get the same luck as you did because I didn’t even received the first letter with the pictures, instead I received the “unsatisfied photo enforcement ticket” notice. So I didn’t get the chance until it was too late. Lets hope everything goes well.

  • godisafairytale

    I just got a ticket in Nassau County, NY for speeding (not red light). It was not that fast. It was sent to the registered owner of the car (not me), because in NY it doesn’t matter who was driving at the time. They don’t take photos of the driver here. Do I have any defense?
    The fine or a notice contesting it is due by 10/30/14.

    • dd

      What did you do?

      • godisafairytale

        @disqus_fZgcxnezje:disqus – After doing a bunch of research, I realized that I would likely lose the case because only a very tiny percentage of people win and I didn’t really have any proof. I would’ve then had to pay the fine plus extra court fees for their inconvenience. Sure, the cop might have not showed up, or I could have gotten lucky, but it was a gamble not in my favor. I ended up just biting the bullet and paying the fine.

        However, I did discover in my research that Nassau County screwed something up over the summer so all tickets issued there until school started in early September were dismissed. Had I gotten the ticket just two weeks prior, I could’ve torn it up. I also discovered that many tickets were issued outside the permissible ticketing hours, which is one hour before and after school hours and I think a half hour after special events. Had those applied to me, I also could’ve fought it and won. So it’s worth it to allow plenty of time and do some Googling because you might be able to get out of yours.

        Did you get some tickets in Nassau as well?

        • dd

          No but I think this whole discussion is misleading, based on one case where the authorities decided not to pursue. The legal rationale given for fighting the ticket is discredited in court, at least in several jurisdictions. The author of the thread has not responded to others’ questions.

          • godisafairytale

            The author of this thread, you mean me? I’ve answered promptly to everyone’s questions in this discussion thread, which is just you.

          • dd

            No, I mean the author N. Cox.

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  • charliehall

    In other words, you support endangering the lives of others. Nice.

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  • Kristle Kay

    A few things here,

    1: You are not saving tax money, it just goes elsewhere, like in the pockets of corrupt gov workers.

    2: Anytime the words commercial motor vehicle come up, or driver, transportation, ect.. that’s not your right to travel, that becomes traffic code. Only ppl making money by use of the PUBLIC roads are drivers (taxi, bus DRIVER, trucker, company VEHICLE, ect..).

    There are other ways to beat these tickets, This may be one, but not the best option.

    Also, those of you that think breaking a traffic code “could” injure someone, so could following the codes,

    example, stopping too fast because a light turned yellow, potential of a rear end collision.

    Either way, it is NOT a crime till it happens. it’s up to the individual to use common sense. altho, it’s not so common.

    Furthermore, Cops harassing ppl on the side of the road it more of a hazard then the initial alleged offence. 99.9% of the time.

    One last thing, no need to argue among our self’s, it’s the gov that’s the real criminal here. turn your attention to them, not each other.

  • Lauren

    They should just make the camera take a pic of YOU AND YOUR LICENSE PLATE like they do in europe. You say it is not a victimless crime, but what if you hit someone or yourself? it is a SAFETY PRECAUTION if they don’t enforce it, everyone will do it therefore creating more crashes. e

  • Travis

    Yes, I got a ticket for speeding by camera in DC in January.
    I sent the SAME letter, with a few changes obviously, to DMV Adjudication services.

    I got a response back in a week saying:

    “After careful review of your request, it is hereby denied based on the following:

    The Automatic Traffic Enforcement (ATE) Act authorizes the use of an automated traffic enforcement system within the District of Columbia to detect moving violations. DC Official Code 50-2209.01-03. Information such as recorded images captured through the ATE system may serve as proof that an infraction has occurred. DC Offical Code 50-2209.01(a). These recorded images are “prima facie evidence of an infraction and may be submitted without authetication” DC Offical code 50-2209.01b.

    Additionally, title 18, section 1035.1 of the DC Municipal Regulations sets forth the paramets for deeming a photo radar device correctly calibrated. Those parameters have been met. You can also view the images and other documentation by using the website and PIN number on the notice of infraction or follow-up notice concerning the violation.

    Finally, DC Official Code 50-2302.06 states “no officer is required at the hearing when a violation is deteced by an automated traffic enforcement system.”

    If you did not submitt a written statement if your defense regarding the ticket, you will need to address the violation in writing or person. You may prent this letter to the hearing desk at DC DMV ADJ Services on any business day between 8:30 and 4 PM for a walk in hearing.

    You may also provide a written statement. Respond within 15 calendar days or risk additional fines.

    OK…so what do I do now? Pay? Seems to be either Nathan got a break for being a vet OR DC has fixed the loophole. Anybody else have this happen?

  • MarcoDaPolo

    THANKS FOR THE LETTER!!! I got a redlight ticket in Laurel, MARYLAND
    checked the box that I wasnt driving and sent in a copy of your letter.
    A week later they sent me a letter saying the ticket as dismissed!!! Saved me $100 bucks, thanks again!!

    • MarcoDaPolo

      They even had video of my car running the red light (basically i turned right without coming to a full 3 second stop), but the didnt have a picture of my face. Just my car and plates

  • Danielle

    have you ever heard of Car2go? I got a ticket for speeding in a school zone in one of those. So I had checked the car out under my name and account. They can probably get that info from Car2go, which is HOW they forwarded me the ticket. I was going 29 in a 20 mile per hour zone. It was down hill approaching a red light. Nothing in the video looks out of control. Can I fight that, even tho they know it was me in the car?

  • reamer

    This doesnt work for everyone. Toledo ohio stands by their tickets and wont budge no matter what you say. They claim because its a civil violation and not a criminal one that they can do what they want and cite anyone for violations. And that the constitution foesnt cover civil infractions…..
    The infraction they cited me with was a speeding violation in the middle of an empty high way only going 10 over with no previous traffic violations to speak of.

  • Mike

    I tried this with a photo enforced red light ticket here in IL and I got a response saying my defense was reviewed by an administrative hearing officer and that my “asserted excuse or reason was not recognized” and that I had to pay the fine.

  • Red Light Camera

    IT’S NO USE!
    All anyone in this forum want’s to do is complain.
    No one wants to DO SOMETHING about the problem of guessing at traffic lights.
    Prove me wrong.
    Visit our website and let us know that you want to help.


  • PNP4Life

    Nicely done…. If I pull this shit in Louisiana I may have agents and shit at my door ready to arrest. Down here they don’t care about violating your rights, all they want is your money.


    My speed camera ticket was dropped as well. Fight for it and they will drop the ticket

  • Denise

    I tried writing a very similar letter and it didn’t work. They just cited their unconstitutional laws again. Unfortunately, I don’t live near DC and don’t have to time to go argue in person so I will likely just pay the ticket.

  • Duck

    john porentas farted and blew up photo enforced red light tickets

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  • Linda Martin

    I followed this to the T – got a letter just the other day almost 6 to 8 months later stating I was responsible for this ticket. Is there a follow up?

  • alexa

    im not from around the area though im from new jersey how was i supposed to know they had camera and i never even saw the actual speed limit so i assumed 35 was not bad but wth is wrong with these fucking people over 100 people prob get tickets a day if they dont kno its there sucha scam i hate america sometimesALL THEY WANT IS FUCKING MONEY AND THIS SHITTY ASS STATE IS POOR AS FUCK FOR EVEN DOING THIS SHIT

  • alexa

    so since im not from here should i say that i did not know my gps was taking me all over and i was getting worried on the streeeets and driving and also say there was no speed limit , they should make one right there or before it i didnt see shit

  • Matthew Wilson

    I just got one of these tickets in the mail and I know for a fact I was not driving my vehicle.