How to Beat a Photo-Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

Auto-Speed-Enforcement1

Last year I received a letter in the mail from the Washington D.C DMV claiming I was speeding. As you can see it was one of those Photo-Enforced Speeding Tickets and they had multiple pictures of my CAR. I knew better to just submit and pay a fine like the majority of people do in this country, unfortunately. I am in the habit of not taking “plea deals”, and I am always in the habit of fighting my tickets and NOT pre-paying them so I don’t have to go to court – like many folks do. I just about always record my interactions with the police, whether it’s a traffic stop or not, that way it keeps the entire situation objective, transparent and I can hold the public servant accountable if he/ she violates my rights.

So I got this letter in the mail: 

Front: IMG 0002 1024x884 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)
Back: IMG_0003.pdf

IMG 0003 1024x885 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

I can’t recall why I got the next letter, but I think it was because I didn’t respond promptly enough.

Front: IMG 00011 786x1024 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

Back: BackPg2 793x1024 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

As you can see these criminals issuing these tickets are hoping that the people will just get scared and pay, or not want to waste their time with it. However the government has to provide evidence that it was actually ME driving, it’s their burden of proof. Just because they got pictures of my car doesn’t mean I was driving. So, in response to the first letter, I mailed them back the following letter (copied and pasted):

To Whom it May Concern,

I received a letter claiming I committed a violation of a speeding law in the District of Columbia on 04/21/2012. As per the instructions, I am writing to plead ‘not guilty’ to this charge. Although this option is said to result in this matter going to court; it is my suggestion that the charges simply be dropped. This suggestion comes out of respect for tax payers, and my request that their hard earned money not be wasted in such proceedings. As there is no evidence of my involvement with this alleged ‘crime’, as well as the fact that I am not granted my 6th amendment right to face my ‘accuser’ (a camera); I see no way the government could prove my guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I also see find no legal requirement for me to implicate someone else in this process, as it is the government’s responsibility to prove a person’s guilt. It is also my 5th amendment right to remain silent on the matter.

If it is the government’s decision to move forward in this matter, I would request copies of any evidence the prosecution may have of my involvement in the “offense”; as well as, all maintenance records for the camera(s) involved.

Sincerely,

Nathan Cox
United States Army Veteran

HUGE thanks to super activist Meg McLain. I was slammed with work and was about to miss the deadline to mail the rebuttal letter in. She was my roommate at the time, I told her about how I needed it to read and she came up with a fantastic piece. I HIGHLY recommend Meg for any of your Graphic Design or Video Animation needs – She’s stellar!
After sending that letter I received this post card:
IMG 0004 1024x689 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

MANY months later (much more than 6 months), just the other day I get this post card showing that the ticket is DISMISSED.
Just the other day (A year later) I get this post card:

IMAG2481 1024x577 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

So PLEASE, NEVER EVER opt to pay these Photo Enforced Speeding AND Red Light tickets! You do NOT have to incriminate yourself OR implicate anyone else. It’s the government’s responsibility to provide evidence that YOU were the person driving, don’t help them in their “investigation”. ALWAYS go to court and fight your tickets, if there is NO VICTIM.. there is NO CRIME!

  • http://holistichomemaking.org April

    No where in the article did you say if you were indeed speeding. Were you? I am all for fighting something if you were clearly innocent BUT if you were speeding then you should pay the fine, not try to avoid having to pay the ticket.

    • http://john-wayne.us John G. Sutton

      In the UK one is responsible as the listed owner of the vehicle to provide details of the driver in the event of any traffic law violations. A former minister of state, one Chris Hune, was recently impisioned for attempting to pervert the course of justice by having his wife falsely claim that she was driving his car when it was caught in a camera speed trap. She was also banged up.

      • Randy

        Hi John, thankfully we don’t bow to the crown anymore. Cheers!

        • Paul

          As much as we complain of our limited freedoms here in the United States and how our freedoms are being trampled on (and they are), the UK is far worse off. Country wide internet blocks, not allowed to own guns, no car tints allowed, no privacy, no freedom, the government sticks a shaft up everyone’s rear end. No thanks.

          I will continue to fight for every freedom and “right” here in the United States. The war to gain freedom is never over, there are always people looking to take it away so they can have more absolute control over the general public.

    • charlie

      you need to read the constitution… you need to read the 4th amendment and the 6th amendment… federal and state officers, employers and elected officials took and oath of office to support the cosntitutions…. they do not get to make procedural errors and violate the the contitution and the oath of office.

      • http://fixtix.us/ Rich

        CHARLIE, Politicians don’t make mistakes? really? That’s very comforting to know, thank you for sharing that FACT.

        Up until now when I thought of ELECTED OFFICIALS words like KICKBACK and BRIBERY and ABUSE would come to mind. In fact, isn’t this EXACTLY what the CAM-SCAM is?

        A PRIVATE COMPANY, not elected officials, are the one’s enforcing the law in this case. How do they get away with it? They kick back, USUALLY, around 60% of the money they EXTORT from Americans!

        The fact that these elected officials took an oath to PROTECT and PRESERVE the Constitution BEFORE getting into bed with PRIVATE CAMERA COMPANIES that tax citizens for driving down the street makes it even more disgusting!

        The people you are referring to, who swore that oath, are now in bed with CAM-SCAM companies raking in money by TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. Our founding fathers would puke if they heard about this scam!

        Read about what the OHIO JUDGE said about traffic cameras about 2 months ago. (Just search OHIO JUDGE TRAFFIC CAMERA SCAM and you’ll find the story).

        OPEN YOUR EYES MAN!

    • Maria

      April, So I’m assuming every time you look down at your speedometer and see you are speeding, you fine yourself according to the law, and send in your payment. That’s the next most ridiculous step to giving up your rights and letting a camera “catch you” and fine you.

      • Randy

        Nice… LoL

      • Andrew

        No one is caught speeding every time they do. But, if you get caught then pay the fine.

        April’s question, and really mine as well, is “So, were you speeding?”

        It’s one thing to fight abusive government or authority, it’s another to use the system just because you can. The former is laudable, the latter just means you’re acting like a punk.

    • http://www.militantlibertarian.org Aaron

      Why?

    • http://none Larry

      The problem with violating a speeding law, is that it is forced taxation since there is no victim. So continue to live with the other lemmings that follow laws that have no victim or standup and refuse to have your property stolen from you.

      • charlie

        Well put. It was and should still be, We the PEOPLE. Not those crooks that sit in courts, working for the same crooks that want you in their courts. And of course, you are there for their crooks that wear those funny costumes. Those costumes are supposed to make you think it’s OK for them to do anything, and they are always right. The truth is the only VICTIM is us.

    • Freedom1Man

      Why should he pay any sort of extortion money?
      Who was harmed?
      Since when was speeding a cause to collect more tax money?

      Why does the state not have to produce a contract for a civil case?

    • Mike

      As with a large percentage of speed limits across the country, more than likely the posted speed limit was well below the 85th percentile speeds determined by traffic engineering. So even if the gentlemen was traveling above the posted speed limit, he most likely was still travelling at a SAFE speed.

      • Randy

        That argument never works unless you subpoena a traffic engineer to court. That’s a great way to piss off the court. I’ll try it :-)

    • http://fixtix.us/ Rich

      April,
      When was the last time you drove anywhere without exceeding the speed limit at one time or another? BE HONEST! Just today you were driving at speeds in excess of the posted speed limit and YOU KNOW IT. I know it too, so if you don’t want to tell the truth that’s fine with me. Your comment makes obvious the fact that you simply aren’t getting it.

      The issue here is not whether or not having cameras to document unsafe driving is a good idea. It’s a GREAT idea! With cameras we could be documenting who’s at fault in an accident, or who’s driving in an actual hazardous manner, help fight crime and make the country a safer place!

      The problem is that the US Government has decided to use the cameras instead to fine people for NORMAL DRIVING. If you drive down any road VERY few people are going EXACTLY the speed limit. Most are going a few miles over. At any intersection people commonly proceed through yellow lights at their discretion, in a safe and normal manner. I got a red light ticket for turning right on a red light, which is allowed in Florida, without coming to a complete stop, early in the morning, with no other traffic on the road. I stopped and turned right. BUT my wheels didn’t come to a FULL exact complete stop so I got a ticket (which BTW I never paid, with NO consequence).

      Just like so many other great ideas, this one has been pimped out by some GREEDY STATES with private CAM-SCAM companies all too willing to participate in RIPPING PEOPLE OFF!

      They pretend this is about public safety but it’s really about GOVERNMENT GREED. Did traffic accidents decrease at intersections with red light camera’s? Yes. The camera companies brag about that on their website while conveniently leaving out the part about how rear end collisions tripled at these intersections because of people slamming on the brakes at yellow lights for fear of getting one of their extortion tickets.

      Nor did they mention documented cases where cities actually installed cameras at intersections then SHORTENED THE TIME OF YELLOW LIGHTS at those intersections! Does that sound like public safety or fund raising?

      So April, I’m asking you, if you got a speeding ticket in the mail and you saw that you may have been speeding but you weren’t REALLY speeding, you were just going the same speed as the rest of the traffic on the road. What would YOU do?

      Something tells me that your Goody Two Shoe comment would turn into another comment about how YOU TOO got ripped off by a traffic camera.

      OPEN YOUR EYES!

      • Sam

        These cameras have almost gotten myself into accidents twice and that is why I am against them. There are so many of them in Miami, FL that I have basically being trained to slam on my brakes when I see a green light turn yellow because of fear of getting a ticket. Now most cases this would be the right thing to do, to break on a yellow light, but every now and then the safest thing to do is keep going. Yet my instinct now is to break break break, NO more tickets. So in two occasions as I am breaking to avoid running a red light I realize that there is no way I will be able to come to a complete stop before the intersection, so i end of pressing the gas to the fullest to get as quickly as possible across that intersection (and I ended up running a red light). If there would not have been a camera at the intersection I wouldn’t have acted that way and simply kept going when I saw yellow and everything would have been fine. So when we talk about making a safer environment, those cameras have made it in 2 occasions way more dangerous.

        • Diana Simmons

          Yes, and that same camera where you avoided by SPEEDING, will get you “speeding”, so either way, you get a ticket. It happen, to my daughter, here in New Orleans. Here in New Orleans we have two parishes, Orleans and Jefferson. In Jefferson they Outlawed the cameras and the people that were fined in Jefferson are going to get a refund, but in Orleans parish, the father of the mayor, a former mayor himself, is a Supreme Court Judge, so the Supreme Court RULED that the “cameras” were “constitutional”. 50 years driving, never, ever, had an accident in four States and two Countries, but 5 months living in Jefferson parish I have had 6 camera tickets going to My Dr.’s appointments. School Zone, little children get out at 2:30 but got tickets at quarter to six, because Cameras are still working, and red light turning from yellow (shortened the yellow time to red) where the intersection was completely clear, got tickets, had hearings told them, and show them evidence that I’m on SSI and very limited income, and was told that HOMELESS people had to pay camera fines. So far, I’ve paid three, but will have trouble with the other three! Orleans Parish has always being notoriously corrupt, but this one takes the cake!

          • Bill Naylor

            In Texas they claim the law is civil and if it is civil then you would have to had signed a contract willingly agreeing to all items in the contract. But since civil law is all contract law and they don’t have one from you, they try to extort under color of law ( means it looks like valid law) by fear and ignorance of law on be half of the public. The way I beat them is I wait until they turn it over to a lawyer debt collecter then I write and challange them to produce the contract which they can’t do because there isn’t one. Here they threaten to stop you from getting your car registered when it comes due. I have yet to not be able to register my car. These people have gotten so greedy Anderson think us little sheeple are to dumb to figure it. They don’t think that we are tired of getting ripped off. To much to share here but you can email me for more if you like. Sincerely Bill

    • Teresa

      April, the District of Columbia government made $78.8 million in 2012 in speed camera fines. With minimal effort, Mr. Cox used his Constitutional rights to fight a $250 ticket. If his speeding were such an egregious crime, why did the D.C. government dismiss the ticket?

    • http://AOL Patrick

      April I disagree with you on this and I am retired Law Enforcement. His fifth amendment right allows him/her to remain silent about their innocence or guilt and in New York State arrests for Violations of Law (minor traffic offenses and some penal law violations such as discon, trespass unlawful possession of marijuana) must be personally witnessed by a Police Officer and not a camera. Nor a video viewed by a Police Officer after the fact. If you are to be held accountable for speeding the state has the burden of proof and should not have to rely on your honesty for a conviction.

    • Divinity

      April: We have a CORRUPT system that thrives on a “taxation by citation” system of revenue generation. It’s contrary to the principles this country was founded on, and it only exists because we tolerate it. It’s people like you that facilitate the petty, nit-picking, nanny state apostasy that calls itself “government.”

      Perhaps instead of worshiping the government god, you need to redefine what truly is and isn’t considered “wrong.”

    • DigitalShadow

      Seriously, April? Presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

    • Randy

      Hi April, that question is irrelevant. It’s not his duty or responsibility to incriminate himself. He has ascerted his rights and invoked the government to back off from his immunities. He has no duty to inform the government of any percieved violation… Which would be in admissible because Nathan doesn’t carry a radar gun, tuning forks or a certificate of calibration of his speedometer in his vehicle every 6months. As a a matter of fact, no one does except the government. And they do it because they are stator idly required to maintained calibrated and constantly checked equipement foe the purpose of law enforcement. If the govt wants to circumvent the constitution on these citations then they have already accounted for the multitudes who will invoke their rights and be released. They are banking on all of the willfully ignorant idiots who are systemically stuck.

    • Greg

      It doesn’t look like he was even operating a vehicle in commerce. Why just assume the law applies to you. Speeding is a transportation code, meaning you have to be operating a vehicle for profit. If he paid the speeding ticket then he should also pay the FAA for flying too low over a roadway. They lack jurisdiction.

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  • http://facebook Beverly Armstrong

    awesome!

  • http://www.rebelincmusic.com rebel inc.

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  • ward

    I have the same thing happen to me, but the letter went to my parents house which is odd because I am 34 years old and have not lived with my parent since I join the army. thank you for this post I will use this.

    • LC

      Hi, Ward,

      Just curious, did your letter work? did your ticket get dismissed?!

    • Randy

      The car is in your moms name.

  • Mark

    Nice going! I am just confused on something…you mentioned you are “in the habit of not taking ‘plea deals’” but in the letter that you wrote to the government, you said “I am writing to plead ‘not guilty’ to this charge.” I believe that you should never “plead” and instead should seek remedy under common law jurisdiction. You are also correct that you have a right to meet your accuser or a witness, and having a camera as a witness would be pretty awkward to say the least.

    • Diana Simmons

      Yeah, but when you request a hearing, they confront you with the FILM of your car as EVIDENCE…

      • Bill Naylor

        Never go to their court and never request a hearing. Wait until the lawyer debt collecters send you a threatening letter. Then write them back and demand the original contract which they don’t have. They tell you its civil and since it really is civil they have to produce a contract you willingly and knowingly signed. Demand a certified copy of the contract the camera company signed with the gov’t entity who sent you the violation letter. Then tell them it is felony fraud to get money under false pretenses. If you want more info come back to this blog sight. Maybe Randy will help us exchange emails or however it works. Sorry as I’m not familiar with how this all works.

    • Randy

      You mean in an equity court?

  • Name

    Rock on brother!

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  • Conrad

    I did a similar thing here in Canada. I was pulled over by a peace officer and told him no crime had occured as under common law, someone had to suffer a loss or be injured, he said I broke a statue, I said doesn’t apply to me I am not a government employee. I still got the ticket wrote a letter to the same effect, never heard from the crown (the ADA or DA) and told them that if I didn’t hear from them by X date that the charges were considered to be dropped., never receieved a reply and there were no charges on my DL when I went to change it.

    • Randy

      ..and then you were arrested a year later for not bowing. :-)

  • Roger Avants

    New Mexicans beware on this! I took the same approach concerning “confronting my accuser, and being placed in the driver seat”. In New Mexico, the camera is considered a “silent witness” and since the OWNER is responsible for the legal operation of the vehicle, YOU are as good as in the driver seat.
    I beat the ticket, and had it dismissed; however, 2 months ago (5 years after the fact), a collection agency for Albuquerque contacted me, and demanded payment for the ticket. As my records are all in storage, and I am in Costa Rica, this is going to be difficult to resolve now.

    • Randy

      Roger, either your an idiot or your a cop. Which one?

  • Jordan Page

    Nate, as always, you are a complete badass.

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  • Gutsy

    Were you actually speeding though? I noticed that you didn’t respond to April’s comment. That’s pretty dishonest if you were actually breaking the law and just don’t feel like paying. Your rights weren’t violated, you broke the law and got caught.

    If you weren’t actually speeding, then way to go. But if you were, man up and pay your fine and stop speeding.

    • Teresa

      “Your rights weren’t violated, you broke the law and got caught.”

      His rights would’ve been violated had he paid the ticket.

      • Bill Naylor

        What law, civil or criminal?

    • Chairman Mao

      This guy and April would have made wonderful party members! Need more patriots like this to follow any law I please!

  • Bruce

    I agree with your sentiment, but you’re talking about a 6th Amendment issue, not a 4th.

  • cynthia

    I commend you on this! Wow what a victory! Whether you were actually speeding or not to me is irrelevent..its the police’s job to catch you breaking a law…not some camera so this is great and I will share with everyone I know! Great great post!

  • Dano

    I just received a letter and speeding ticket violation notice from Cedar Rapids Iowa where my wife and I were driving through to an out-of town wedding. The letter did include 2 photo’s of my car and close-up of my license plate stating I was driving 13 miles over the posted limit.
    I will be using much of this text from Nathans letter to fight this ticket and not pay the $75 fine.
    I will be sure to follow up and tell you what if this ticket was dismissed.

    • MDub

      How did this turn out? Did you get off the hook?

    • Ali

      Same thing happened to me. Looking for advice. Any updates?

      • Bill Naylor

        Wait until the lawyer debt collecter sends you a threatening letter then write them and ask for the original contract or debt instrument. Also demand that they produce a certified. Copy of the contract between the camera company and the government agency that wrote you the letter in the first place. Then tell them that trying to get money under false pretenses is felony fraud and they could be guilty of being involved in champless. I think I spelled champless wrong. Tell them that extortion under color of law is a felony and anyone aiding and abetting in such can be sued in federal court. Lastly tell them in civil law no contract means no ability to bring suit in court. That’ts it. I used this approach to stop one of the most powerful lawyer debt collecters from collecting on a credit card debt. They wrote me back apoligised and promised not to bother me again.

  • Constitutional Reset from VA in NC, Co.

    ‘Constitutional Reset’ as it applies to shake-downs in VA on a ‘reckless driving’ infraction:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reckless_driving#Virginia

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    • Barney

      Interesting that you refer the DC Gov’t as “Criminals” because they issued you a ticket for going greater than 11 mph over the speed limit, and you and others seem to think this is a “victimless” crime… I guess you feel you only need to obey what laws you agree with.

      I served for 22 years as a volunteer firefighter and I can attest to the fact that there are a LOT of crashes that are caused by speeding… “Victimless Crime”? Yeah, right. Tell that to the family of the innocent LAW-ABIDING drivers that you end up crashing into!

      If more people put half as much effort into being responsible drivers instead of finding and publishing ways to “beat” the penalty, maybe these methods of enforcement wouldn’t be needed.

      • Randy

        I agree. I wouldn’t call them criminals, Barney. I would use “clandestine organization”. This is not about ways to beat the penalty – it’s about the application in asserting our constitutional rights. The govt can not break the constitutional law to enforce a statutory law. That’s a COLOR OF LAW abuse and a Title 42-1983 civil rights violation., bro.

        • charlie

          Exactly right. It’s a scam these costume crooks pull. But it’s just part of the crap coming out of the WH now.

      • Bill Naylor

        Barney you need to wake up and smell the corruption. These cameras are not about right or wrong or someone breaking a legitimate law. They are about scaming money from the sheeple and especially sheep that think the government we have today is legit. All government has been converted into corporations and therefor you don’t violate law but corporate statutes. Everything is corupt. There is no more U.S.A since FDR put HJR192 in place for the bankruptcy of the U.S.A in 1933. Representative James Traficant from Ohio put it into the congresional record about the bankruptcy. Look him up on the web. But frankly I doubt that you will because there will always be people who don’t research anything and all they see is the law which they never question. God bless

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  • Owen

    You were caught speeding and you just wanted to cry about it until they dismissed it. Congrats on not stepping up to your actions like a man? Just goes to show what kind of guidance you were raised by. If you cry and throw a temper tantrum you will have your way. How honorable. Haha

    • Randy

      How long have you been a cop, Owen?

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  • susancarol

    If you are really gone speed and break the law without any proper reason the you must have to pay the ticket. http://www.phillytrafficlawyer.com

  • Lola Antun

    I got a red-light ticket in Knoxville, TN Does anyone know if this will really work in TN before I try it and get fined even more? It seems some states have a found a way to get around it.

    • Randy

      Hi April, that question is irrelevant. It’s not his duty or responsibility to incriminate himself. He has ascerted his rights and invoked the government to back off from his immunities. He has no duty to inform the government of any percieved violation… Which would be in admissible because Nathan doesn’t carry a radar gun, tuning forks or a certificate of calibration of his speedometer in his vehicle every 6months. As a a matter of fact, no one does except the government. And they do it because they are stator idly required to maintained calibrated and constantly checked equipement foe the purpose of law enforcement. If the govt wants to circumvent the constitution on these citations then they have already accounted for the multitudes who will invoke their rights and be released. They are banking on all of the willfully ignorant idiots who are systemically stuck.

      • charlie

        Exactly

    • Camera Shy

      Lola Antun…I also received a red-light ticket in Knoxville, TN. Did you use this approach? If so, how did it turn out for you?

  • Lola Antun

    Sorry this comment is not a comment pls ignore

  • Jason

    It’s like the old saying goes, “Those who drive like a**hole, look for any loophole they can.”

    • Randy

      Let me guess… Your here to protect and serve?

  • hector

    the only reason he got off the hook is because he included the title “United States Army Veteran” under his name. the hearing examiner probably felt bad for the guy and decided to dismiss the charge. If anyone else had written that simplistic statement, that person would certainly still be going to court and paying the $250.

    • Randy

      Wrong hector. It works NOT a few times or sporadically. Asserting your constitution rights works every time. Just like when you invoke Miranda rights to keep your pie hole shut.

  • Jade

    I was so shocked to read the blog through someone’s Facebook. What a bad way to teach people to fight against the law when you are the guilty party. I totally agreed with Barney’s comment on 12-11-2013. There is no victim until someone gets hurt. You were lucky that no one got hurt in your case. What will you feel if someone speed and hurt you or your family? If you did speed and got caught, you should face the consequences.
    Remember the conscience, not the law should define one’s behavior/action. The world will be much better if we all teach our children the right way instead of argue/cheat their way out! It’s so important to teach the children right from wrong when they are little.

    • Randy

      Who said he was guilty?

  • Scott Crawford

    You sir are a jackass, you broke the law and were caught. Instead of showing HONOR and INTEGRITY ( sound familiar? They should, considering they are some of the Army values you obviously didn’t learn.) You instead decided that you were too good for the law. What happened to being responsible for your actions? I guess that is someone else’s responsibility. Next time you try some bullshit like this do me the favor of not using you supposed military status when commuting such cowardly acts of fraud. You are a disgrace to the honorable men and women who serve this country.

    • Randy

      Hi Scott, have you ever gotten a parking ticket in a Walmart parking lot?

    • Bill Naylor

      Gee Scott you make it sound like a person who exercises his or her constitutional rights and shares his successes is not honorable and is a coward. And you consider that fraud? Scott you wouldn’t be one of them thar gov’t plants that ridicules and distorts the facts to make people who at are not politically correct look stupid. You seem to be one who never questions the law which is what a dictatership wants. You sir are to be commended for being a good little sheeple and comrade. And mole?

      • argghhh

        scott probably thinks that govt grants rights. personally, i find it a whoooole lot more honorable (and sexy) to call out a tyrannical govt

  • http://www.lawyernortheastphiladelphia.com max

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  • DocHoliday916

    In response both to Jason’s posting on 11 Dec 2013 and April’s posting on 10 May 13; both of you agregiously miss the Constitutional protections. First, the burden of proof rests with the State to prove guilt. It is the driver and NOT the car who has Constitutional protections under the 5th and 6th Amendments. Life liberty and property may not be taken without due process of law. Accordongly, if the state cannot prove WHO was driving the car at the time of the violation then where is their case to take money from the owner of the car? Even if the owner is driving the car, he/she is not compelled under the 5th Amendment ot give testimony against themselves OR should be complelled to do the State’s job and provide a name of whoever was driving the car at the time of the alleged violation. Since when was a Constitutional protection considered a loophole? JAson and April’s point of view portend a dangerous erosion of civil liberties protecting the indivuidual against the erroneous practices of a State that wishes to shortcut due process through intimidation.

  • http://www.lawyernortheastphiladelphia.com bob

    man up and pay your fine and stop speeding.

    • Randy

      Bob, cross the thin blue line. It will set you free.

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  • Angela

    How would this work for a red light ticket? Along with photos, there is also a video…Is it still possible to get around that?

  • khope

    Someone needs to mention that in certain states this will not work. Illinois has a law that states only the license plate needs to be seen and the owner of the car will receive the ticket, no matter who is driving. People skipping out on tickets like this is the reason why more states are becoming more and more strict. If you were doing say, 15 over, just man up and pay it. If you were only 5 over, then whatever, that’s not ticket worthy. But if you’re doing this because you don’t agree with the law, you should keep in mind that the absolute worst way to protest a law is to refuse to follow it. For those with legit proof that this system is flawed, petition your congressmen. Include actual facts and statistics in a petition and start gathering as many signatures as possible. Enough people speak out and protest the RIGHT way, and change will (someday) be made. Continuing to not follow the law as a form of protest is just going to get you in possible trouble and show lawmakers that the law has a point.

    • Bill Naylor

      What law, civil or criminal? They claim its civil and if its civil there has to be a contract willingly and knowingly signed by you! You didn’t sign any contract. Never go to their little kangaroo court, wait til they turn it over to lawyer debt collecters. Then write to the debt collecters. And demand the contract they don’t have! And tell them that trying to get money under false pretenses is felony fraud. They will leave you alone!

    • http://thefullcourtpress.org Rand Cadmus

      That’s why you need to go to Illinios “COPBLOCKS” website and see how they get down over there. This is Virginia “COPBLOCK”

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  • skylar

    I copied this letter and changed the wording to fit my red light ticket of $160 in Haines City, Fl. I got a letter responding that I had a court date scheduled. I can either pay the original fine plus $50 to cancel my court appearance or show up and risk having to pay $250 in court fines if I lose. Now I’m concerned about what to do.

    • http://virginiacopblock.org Virginia Cop Block

      fight it in court using the same premise!!!!

  • Dougie

    Before anyone in the District of Columbia relies on this, you should read the Agomo case, which is directly on point. The case stands for the proposition that photo violations constitute civil and not criminal penalties and therefore are not bound by the constitution. I disagree with the reasoning, but I know from experience in unsuccessfully fighting a photo violation that the arguments referenced above will not work.

    Here is the case: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=8575727632696898671&q=%22916+A.2d+181%22&hl=en&as_sdt=4,9,130,140

    • Bill Naylor

      If its civil they have to produce a contract that you willingly and knowingly signed. No contract, no ability to take you to court. These people are the criminals and they lie. You know how you can tell if a lawyer is lying? His lips are moving. So true. Never go to court for traffic camera letters. They are all civil. Just wait for the debt collecters to write you then write back and demand the contract they don’t have.

  • Beat it

    Thanks for the tip. Beat my ticket for the exact same camera. Used the basics of your letter, but changed it a bit. Asked for more back up info. It is hard to find that you can fight these tickets without having to pay in advance or having to appear in person.

  • Jen M

    Received citation for $100 for Speeding 11-15 over limit in 01/2014. Sent the above letter (updated with my info, of course). Received letter this month 03/2014 claiming still liable – fine assessed.

    • Bill Naylor

      Its civil not criminal. Civil requires them to have a contract you willingly and knowingly signed. Never go to their kangaroo court, wait for debt collecters to send you a letter and then write back and demand certified copys of the contract they don’t have.

  • Brian

    I got one of these today…but they also have a clear picture of my face.

    • http://virginiacopblock.org Virginia Cop Block

      You can still try and utilize your 6th Amendment right to “face (and question) your accuser, which in this case is a machine…

  • will

    Everyone on here who says man up and accept the consequence, you are fools. Like many have already said in previous post,everybody speeds at one point or another in their many years of driving.Issuing tickets is all about the state/federal government receiving more money. Crimes don’t stop because you fine citizens. Keep that in mind and also for those who think using the law to your advantage is cheating, wrong, or the pu**y away out, your all idiots and probably never paid attention when you took American history in high school. The constitution and the laws where placed to prevent injustice, corruption, wrong doing, etc. =) Have a nice day (=

  • Joe

    I’m from the uk and it’s true that in this country you have to by law say who was driving
    or face worse charges. It’s the only crime in this country where you have to incriminate
    yourself by admitting it was you driving. It’s wrong that murderers, rapists and paedophiles
    have more legal rights and protection than some one who momentarily drifts over the speed
    limit

  • jamie

    Wow, you really are just a waste of space. Thank god you didn’t get in a wreck and seriously injure someone while you were so carelessly speeding. If you commit a crime you should own up to it. But I guess you are to big of a coward to admit to your mistakes. What’s next “How to get away with murder.”
    Please use your brain before posting such irresponsible crap.

  • charlie

    Seems to me that I actually took the time to read the crap the crooks create. Bottom line, Texas Motor Vehicle Code defines driver, driving, vehicle, and etc as a Commercial activity. Look at your drivers license. It will say you are a class C commercial driver. But if you don’t drive commercially, like a taxi, delivery truck, or that, but you actually travel from and to where ever you want to go, you are free to travel without any license. Those BS codes apply to commercial crap. Supreme says so, not me.

    • charlie

      Sorry, I left out Court. As in Supreme Court of the USA. I think it has been tried 6 or 7 times and they still say the same thing. The legal definition of a license is giving someone (as in you) permission to do something that would be illegal otherwise. Don’t believe me? Just check the law dictionaries for (a) license.

  • Yon

    Because the law is different in Illinois, I can not state that the camera does not prove I am the one driving since the ticket is mailed to the owner of the car. However, I can argue that I am not granted my 6th amendment right to face my ‘accuser’ (a camera). Is this correct??? Would this be effective? I have heard that there this issue is in IL courts now.

    • http://virginiacopblock.org Virginia Cop Block

      You can argue you weren’t driving. Just because you are the owner of the car, doesn’t mean you were driving the day they allegedly caught you doing XYZ.
      Reach out to us via Facebook Private message for more assistance

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  • Sean

    C. Offense
    1. The vehicle owner shall be liable for a fine as imposed below if such vehicle crosses a
    marked stop line or the intersection plane at a system location when the traffic signal
    for that vehicle’s direction is emitting a steady red light or red arrow.

    2 The vehicle owner shall be liable for a fine as imposed below if such vehicle travels
    at a speed above the posted speed limit through the marked intersections.

    3. The citation will in no event be sent or reported to the Iowa Department of
    Transportation or similar department of any state for the purposes of being added to
    the vehicle owner’s driving record.

    According to Muscatine, Iowa in their municipal ordinance,…The vehicle “OWNER” is held liable. This seems to create little room for the “burden of proof” argument and “prove I was driving”. I guess if you “weren’t” driving, you would be fined and then have to recover your fine from the person who “was” driving. Please tell me how to over come this as I am currently sitting on a ticket…otherwise I think I am stuck…nice job Muscatine, I think I’ll wipe my ass with the check I send them…

  • http://CivilLiberty101.com RedLightCamera

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  • SAMO

    has anyone tried this in NEW YORK? does this really work? i was given a ticket with my car and the red light states it had been red for 0000.2 seconds, when of my vehicle crossed the intersection. i refuse to pay 80$ to some company (not even the county government) for 000.2 seconds. someone help!

    • http://CivilLiberty101.com RedLightCamera

      We can’t help with speeding tickets but we have the iron clad argument that kills Red Light Camera tickets.

      If your interested, Check out our facebook post
      https://www.facebook.com/redlight.camera.1/posts/1428107534132078?fref=nf

    • http://CivilLiberty101.com RedLightCamera

      Hi SAMO,
      Sorry for my duplicate reply. I’m new to PATCH.
      Were you asking me if anyone has tried the FINNLINE argument in NY?
      I don’t know.
      But if you look at our argument you will see that it should work everywhere. (Why are people guessing? Why are people’s perception of time and rate of travel being held to the same standard of precision as digital equipment?)
      We are not given a fair chance. It’s impossible for us to obey. The best we can do is guess. Would you like to scan the ticket (both sides) to us? WE ARE NOT ATTORNEYS but we would like to see if we can help you. Our website is on our #FINNLINE Video on You Tube
      Be sure to put PLEASE HELP in the memo field.

    • http://virginiacopblock.org Virginia Cop Block

      Yes it should work in NY as long as the photo is not of your FACE. MANY folks all around the U.S have used the letter, verbatim or customized and have let us know it works.
      IT works because it’s Constitutionally sound! (- Nate)

  • Jaycee

    So these photo violations are civil just like parking tickets correct? I know for a fact that numerous unpaid civil fines, like parking tickets, can result in not being able to re-register your vehicle legally or your vehicle being booted until fines are paid. Can this happen with unpaid photo-enforced tickets? I want to fight, but I just don’t want my wife to have to deal with our car being booted or not properly registered when we don’t pay.

  • Monte Goodyk

    Thanks! Great article!

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  • Fred Knapp Copier Guru

    by running the red light, you potentially could have killed someone. i am against cops nearly always, but perhaps you should think of the consequences of your actions.

    • argghhh

      you do know that jurisdictions that have installed these electronic snitches have intentionally shortened the duration of the yellow in order to reap more revenue from red light ‘runners’ thus creating an increase in rear end collisions?