How to Beat a Photo-Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

Auto-Speed-Enforcement1

Last year I received a letter in the mail from the Washington D.C DMV claiming I was speeding. As you can see it was one of those Photo-Enforced Speeding Tickets and they had multiple pictures of my CAR. I knew better to just submit and pay a fine like the majority of people do in this country, unfortunately. I am in the habit of not taking “plea deals”, and I am always in the habit of fighting my tickets and NOT pre-paying them so I don’t have to go to court – like many folks do. I just about always record my interactions with the police, whether it’s a traffic stop or not, that way it keeps the entire situation objective, transparent and I can hold the public servant accountable if he/ she violates my rights.

So I got this letter in the mail:

Front: IMG 0002 1024x884 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)
Back: IMG_0003.pdf

IMG 0003 1024x885 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

I can’t recall why I got the next letter, but I think it was because I didn’t respond promptly enough.

Front: IMG 00011 786x1024 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

Back: BackPg2 793x1024 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

As you can see these criminals issuing these tickets are hoping that the people will just get scared and pay, or not want to waste their time with it. However the government has to provide evidence that it was actually ME driving, it’s their burden of proof. Just because they got pictures of my car doesn’t mean I was driving. So, in response to the first letter, I mailed them back the following letter (copied and pasted):

To Whom it May Concern,

I received a letter claiming I committed a violation of a speeding law in the District of Columbia on 04/21/2012. As per the instructions, I am writing to plead ‘not guilty’ to this charge. Although this option is said to result in this matter going to court; it is my suggestion that the charges simply be dropped. This suggestion comes out of respect for tax payers, and my request that their hard earned money not be wasted in such proceedings. As there is no evidence of my involvement with this alleged ‘crime’, as well as the fact that I am not granted my 6th amendment right to face my ‘accuser’ (a camera); I see no way the government could prove my guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I also see find no legal requirement for me to implicate someone else in this process, as it is the government’s responsibility to prove a person’s guilt. It is also my 5th amendment right to remain silent on the matter.

If it is the government’s decision to move forward in this matter, I would request copies of any evidence the prosecution may have of my involvement in the “offense”; as well as, all maintenance records for the camera(s) involved.

Sincerely,

Nathan Cox
United States Army Veteran

HUGE thanks to super activist Meg McLain. I was slammed with work and was about to miss the deadline to mail the rebuttal letter in. She was my roommate at the time, I told her about how I needed it to read and she came up with a fantastic piece. I HIGHLY recommend Meg for any of your Graphic Design or Video Animation needs – She’s stellar!
After sending that letter I received this post card:
IMG 0004 1024x689 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

MANY months later (much more than 6 months), just the other day I get this post card showing that the ticket is DISMISSED.
Just the other day (A year later) I get this post card:

IMAG2481 1024x577 How to Beat a Photo Enforced Speeding Ticket (or Red Light Ticket)

So PLEASE, NEVER EVER opt to pay these Photo Enforced Speeding AND Red Light tickets! You do NOT have to incriminate yourself OR implicate anyone else. It’s the government’s responsibility to provide evidence that YOU were the person driving, don’t help them in their “investigation”. ALWAYS go to court and fight your tickets, if there is NO VICTIM.. there is NO CRIME!

87 comments

  1. April says:

    No where in the article did you say if you were indeed speeding. Were you? I am all for fighting something if you were clearly innocent BUT if you were speeding then you should pay the fine, not try to avoid having to pay the ticket.

    • In the UK one is responsible as the listed owner of the vehicle to provide details of the driver in the event of any traffic law violations. A former minister of state, one Chris Hune, was recently impisioned for attempting to pervert the course of justice by having his wife falsely claim that she was driving his car when it was caught in a camera speed trap. She was also banged up.

    • charlie says:

      you need to read the constitution… you need to read the 4th amendment and the 6th amendment… federal and state officers, employers and elected officials took and oath of office to support the cosntitutions…. they do not get to make procedural errors and violate the the contitution and the oath of office.

      • Rich says:

        CHARLIE, Politicians don’t make mistakes? really? That’s very comforting to know, thank you for sharing that FACT.

        Up until now when I thought of ELECTED OFFICIALS words like KICKBACK and BRIBERY and ABUSE would come to mind. In fact, isn’t this EXACTLY what the CAM-SCAM is?

        A PRIVATE COMPANY, not elected officials, are the one’s enforcing the law in this case. How do they get away with it? They kick back, USUALLY, around 60% of the money they EXTORT from Americans!

        The fact that these elected officials took an oath to PROTECT and PRESERVE the Constitution BEFORE getting into bed with PRIVATE CAMERA COMPANIES that tax citizens for driving down the street makes it even more disgusting!

        The people you are referring to, who swore that oath, are now in bed with CAM-SCAM companies raking in money by TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. Our founding fathers would puke if they heard about this scam!

        Read about what the OHIO JUDGE said about traffic cameras about 2 months ago. (Just search OHIO JUDGE TRAFFIC CAMERA SCAM and you’ll find the story).

        OPEN YOUR EYES MAN!

    • Maria says:

      April, So I’m assuming every time you look down at your speedometer and see you are speeding, you fine yourself according to the law, and send in your payment. That’s the next most ridiculous step to giving up your rights and letting a camera “catch you” and fine you.

    • Larry says:

      The problem with violating a speeding law, is that it is forced taxation since there is no victim. So continue to live with the other lemmings that follow laws that have no victim or standup and refuse to have your property stolen from you.

    • Freedom1Man says:

      Why should he pay any sort of extortion money?
      Who was harmed?
      Since when was speeding a cause to collect more tax money?

      Why does the state not have to produce a contract for a civil case?

    • Mike says:

      As with a large percentage of speed limits across the country, more than likely the posted speed limit was well below the 85th percentile speeds determined by traffic engineering. So even if the gentlemen was traveling above the posted speed limit, he most likely was still travelling at a SAFE speed.

      • Randy says:

        That argument never works unless you subpoena a traffic engineer to court. That’s a great way to piss off the court. I’ll try it :-)

    • Rich says:

      April,
      When was the last time you drove anywhere without exceeding the speed limit at one time or another? BE HONEST! Just today you were driving at speeds in excess of the posted speed limit and YOU KNOW IT. I know it too, so if you don’t want to tell the truth that’s fine with me. Your comment makes obvious the fact that you simply aren’t getting it.

      The issue here is not whether or not having cameras to document unsafe driving is a good idea. It’s a GREAT idea! With cameras we could be documenting who’s at fault in an accident, or who’s driving in an actual hazardous manner, help fight crime and make the country a safer place!

      The problem is that the US Government has decided to use the cameras instead to fine people for NORMAL DRIVING. If you drive down any road VERY few people are going EXACTLY the speed limit. Most are going a few miles over. At any intersection people commonly proceed through yellow lights at their discretion, in a safe and normal manner. I got a red light ticket for turning right on a red light, which is allowed in Florida, without coming to a complete stop, early in the morning, with no other traffic on the road. I stopped and turned right. BUT my wheels didn’t come to a FULL exact complete stop so I got a ticket (which BTW I never paid, with NO consequence).

      Just like so many other great ideas, this one has been pimped out by some GREEDY STATES with private CAM-SCAM companies all too willing to participate in RIPPING PEOPLE OFF!

      They pretend this is about public safety but it’s really about GOVERNMENT GREED. Did traffic accidents decrease at intersections with red light camera’s? Yes. The camera companies brag about that on their website while conveniently leaving out the part about how rear end collisions tripled at these intersections because of people slamming on the brakes at yellow lights for fear of getting one of their extortion tickets.

      Nor did they mention documented cases where cities actually installed cameras at intersections then SHORTENED THE TIME OF YELLOW LIGHTS at those intersections! Does that sound like public safety or fund raising?

      So April, I’m asking you, if you got a speeding ticket in the mail and you saw that you may have been speeding but you weren’t REALLY speeding, you were just going the same speed as the rest of the traffic on the road. What would YOU do?

      Something tells me that your Goody Two Shoe comment would turn into another comment about how YOU TOO got ripped off by a traffic camera.

      OPEN YOUR EYES!

      • Sam says:

        These cameras have almost gotten myself into accidents twice and that is why I am against them. There are so many of them in Miami, FL that I have basically being trained to slam on my brakes when I see a green light turn yellow because of fear of getting a ticket. Now most cases this would be the right thing to do, to break on a yellow light, but every now and then the safest thing to do is keep going. Yet my instinct now is to break break break, NO more tickets. So in two occasions as I am breaking to avoid running a red light I realize that there is no way I will be able to come to a complete stop before the intersection, so i end of pressing the gas to the fullest to get as quickly as possible across that intersection (and I ended up running a red light). If there would not have been a camera at the intersection I wouldn’t have acted that way and simply kept going when I saw yellow and everything would have been fine. So when we talk about making a safer environment, those cameras have made it in 2 occasions way more dangerous.

        • Diana Simmons says:

          Yes, and that same camera where you avoided by SPEEDING, will get you “speeding”, so either way, you get a ticket. It happen, to my daughter, here in New Orleans. Here in New Orleans we have two parishes, Orleans and Jefferson. In Jefferson they Outlawed the cameras and the people that were fined in Jefferson are going to get a refund, but in Orleans parish, the father of the mayor, a former mayor himself, is a Supreme Court Judge, so the Supreme Court RULED that the “cameras” were “constitutional”. 50 years driving, never, ever, had an accident in four States and two Countries, but 5 months living in Jefferson parish I have had 6 camera tickets going to My Dr.’s appointments. School Zone, little children get out at 2:30 but got tickets at quarter to six, because Cameras are still working, and red light turning from yellow (shortened the yellow time to red) where the intersection was completely clear, got tickets, had hearings told them, and show them evidence that I’m on SSI and very limited income, and was told that HOMELESS people had to pay camera fines. So far, I’ve paid three, but will have trouble with the other three! Orleans Parish has always being notoriously corrupt, but this one takes the cake!

    • Teresa says:

      April, the District of Columbia government made $78.8 million in 2012 in speed camera fines. With minimal effort, Mr. Cox used his Constitutional rights to fight a $250 ticket. If his speeding were such an egregious crime, why did the D.C. government dismiss the ticket?

    • Patrick says:

      April I disagree with you on this and I am retired Law Enforcement. His fifth amendment right allows him/her to remain silent about their innocence or guilt and in New York State arrests for Violations of Law (minor traffic offenses and some penal law violations such as discon, trespass unlawful possession of marijuana) must be personally witnessed by a Police Officer and not a camera. Nor a video viewed by a Police Officer after the fact. If you are to be held accountable for speeding the state has the burden of proof and should not have to rely on your honesty for a conviction.

    • Divinity says:

      April: We have a CORRUPT system that thrives on a “taxation by citation” system of revenue generation. It’s contrary to the principles this country was founded on, and it only exists because we tolerate it. It’s people like you that facilitate the petty, nit-picking, nanny state apostasy that calls itself “government.”

      Perhaps instead of worshiping the government god, you need to redefine what truly is and isn’t considered “wrong.”

    • DigitalShadow says:

      Seriously, April? Presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

    • Randy says:

      Hi April, that question is irrelevant. It’s not his duty or responsibility to incriminate himself. He has ascerted his rights and invoked the government to back off from his immunities. He has no duty to inform the government of any percieved violation… Which would be in admissible because Nathan doesn’t carry a radar gun, tuning forks or a certificate of calibration of his speedometer in his vehicle every 6months. As a a matter of fact, no one does except the government. And they do it because they are stator idly required to maintained calibrated and constantly checked equipement foe the purpose of law enforcement. If the govt wants to circumvent the constitution on these citations then they have already accounted for the multitudes who will invoke their rights and be released. They are banking on all of the willfully ignorant idiots who are systemically stuck.

  2. I need help fighting a major wrong committed against myself & my family. I have been wrongfully accused of crimes & wrong doings that I did not do. I have not been allowed to speak or show evidence to anyone or in any court. Everything done against me over the last two years has been done illegally & in violation of my Constitutional rights in Alaska & U.S. Also Alaska & U.S. laws were violated by Troopers, DA’s, & Judges. Including Extortion, Breaking & Enterings, Assaults, Criminal Trespasses, Thefts, False Arrests, False Imprisonment, Kidnapping, Torture, Attempted murders, Harrassments, Defamation of my good character & much more. I have all the evidence, eyewitnesses, court (bail hearings)& state trooper audios (even after they modified them), Trooper reports & they all prove me in the right. I need my record cleared of all these false charges in Alaska & be allowed to return to my peaceful life. I have not broken any laws or done one thing that was illegal. I have been harassed & convicted purely on my looks, my name, & hearsay evidence & denied to speak or show the truth. I do historical reenactments & movie shoots for a living & these have been used against me. They are saying I kill people for a living & other absurd lies. Reenactors of all time periods are the best people around. http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/My_good_name_cleared_of_bogus_charges/?caGNAeb For more info on this case go to this link. https://www.facebook.com/TruthForTrapperKillsmany This one you can even leave comments on: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/truthfortrapper/

  3. rebel inc. says:

    Much love Nate! That is too fucking cool, job well done

  4. ward says:

    I have the same thing happen to me, but the letter went to my parents house which is odd because I am 34 years old and have not lived with my parent since I join the army. thank you for this post I will use this.

  5. Mark says:

    Nice going! I am just confused on something…you mentioned you are “in the habit of not taking ‘plea deals’” but in the letter that you wrote to the government, you said “I am writing to plead ‘not guilty’ to this charge.” I believe that you should never “plead” and instead should seek remedy under common law jurisdiction. You are also correct that you have a right to meet your accuser or a witness, and having a camera as a witness would be pretty awkward to say the least.

  6. Name says:

    Rock on brother!

  7. [...] write-up was first posted to VirginiaCopBlock.org by Nate Cox on May 10, [...]

  8. [...] write-up was first posted to VirginiaCopBlock.org by Nate Cox on May 10, [...]

  9. Conrad says:

    I did a similar thing here in Canada. I was pulled over by a peace officer and told him no crime had occured as under common law, someone had to suffer a loss or be injured, he said I broke a statue, I said doesn’t apply to me I am not a government employee. I still got the ticket wrote a letter to the same effect, never heard from the crown (the ADA or DA) and told them that if I didn’t hear from them by X date that the charges were considered to be dropped., never receieved a reply and there were no charges on my DL when I went to change it.

  10. Roger Avants says:

    New Mexicans beware on this! I took the same approach concerning “confronting my accuser, and being placed in the driver seat”. In New Mexico, the camera is considered a “silent witness” and since the OWNER is responsible for the legal operation of the vehicle, YOU are as good as in the driver seat.
    I beat the ticket, and had it dismissed; however, 2 months ago (5 years after the fact), a collection agency for Albuquerque contacted me, and demanded payment for the ticket. As my records are all in storage, and I am in Costa Rica, this is going to be difficult to resolve now.

  11. Jordan Page says:

    Nate, as always, you are a complete badass.

  12. [...] write-up was first posted to VirginiaCopBlock.org by Nate Cox on May 10, [...]

  13. [...] write-up was first posted to VirginiaCopBlock.org by Nate Cox on May 10, [...]

  14. Gutsy says:

    Were you actually speeding though? I noticed that you didn’t respond to April’s comment. That’s pretty dishonest if you were actually breaking the law and just don’t feel like paying. Your rights weren’t violated, you broke the law and got caught.

    If you weren’t actually speeding, then way to go. But if you were, man up and pay your fine and stop speeding.

    • Teresa says:

      “Your rights weren’t violated, you broke the law and got caught.”

      His rights would’ve been violated had he paid the ticket.

    • Chairman Mao says:

      This guy and April would have made wonderful party members! Need more patriots like this to follow any law I please!

  15. Bruce says:

    I agree with your sentiment, but you’re talking about a 6th Amendment issue, not a 4th.

  16. cynthia says:

    I commend you on this! Wow what a victory! Whether you were actually speeding or not to me is irrelevent..its the police’s job to catch you breaking a law…not some camera so this is great and I will share with everyone I know! Great great post!

  17. Dano says:

    I just received a letter and speeding ticket violation notice from Cedar Rapids Iowa where my wife and I were driving through to an out-of town wedding. The letter did include 2 photo’s of my car and close-up of my license plate stating I was driving 13 miles over the posted limit.
    I will be using much of this text from Nathans letter to fight this ticket and not pay the $75 fine.
    I will be sure to follow up and tell you what if this ticket was dismissed.

  18. Constitutional Reset from VA in NC, Co. says:

    ‘Constitutional Reset’ as it applies to shake-downs in VA on a ‘reckless driving’ infraction:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reckless_driving#Virginia

  19. [...] via How to Beat a Photo-Enforced Speeding Ticket or Red Light Ticket |. [...]

    • Barney says:

      Interesting that you refer the DC Gov’t as “Criminals” because they issued you a ticket for going greater than 11 mph over the speed limit, and you and others seem to think this is a “victimless” crime… I guess you feel you only need to obey what laws you agree with.

      I served for 22 years as a volunteer firefighter and I can attest to the fact that there are a LOT of crashes that are caused by speeding… “Victimless Crime”? Yeah, right. Tell that to the family of the innocent LAW-ABIDING drivers that you end up crashing into!

      If more people put half as much effort into being responsible drivers instead of finding and publishing ways to “beat” the penalty, maybe these methods of enforcement wouldn’t be needed.

      • Randy says:

        I agree. I wouldn’t call them criminals, Barney. I would use “clandestine organization”. This is not about ways to beat the penalty – it’s about the application in asserting our constitutional rights. The govt can not break the constitutional law to enforce a statutory law. That’s a COLOR OF LAW abuse and a Title 42-1983 civil rights violation., bro.

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    • I highly encourage people to repost my articles. Credit is not necessary but always appreciate.
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  21. Owen says:

    You were caught speeding and you just wanted to cry about it until they dismissed it. Congrats on not stepping up to your actions like a man? Just goes to show what kind of guidance you were raised by. If you cry and throw a temper tantrum you will have your way. How honorable. Haha

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  24. susancarol says:

    If you are really gone speed and break the law without any proper reason the you must have to pay the ticket. http://www.phillytrafficlawyer.com

  25. Lola Antun says:

    I got a red-light ticket in Knoxville, TN Does anyone know if this will really work in TN before I try it and get fined even more? It seems some states have a found a way to get around it.

    • Randy says:

      Hi April, that question is irrelevant. It’s not his duty or responsibility to incriminate himself. He has ascerted his rights and invoked the government to back off from his immunities. He has no duty to inform the government of any percieved violation… Which would be in admissible because Nathan doesn’t carry a radar gun, tuning forks or a certificate of calibration of his speedometer in his vehicle every 6months. As a a matter of fact, no one does except the government. And they do it because they are stator idly required to maintained calibrated and constantly checked equipement foe the purpose of law enforcement. If the govt wants to circumvent the constitution on these citations then they have already accounted for the multitudes who will invoke their rights and be released. They are banking on all of the willfully ignorant idiots who are systemically stuck.

  26. Lola Antun says:

    Sorry this comment is not a comment pls ignore

  27. Jason says:

    It’s like the old saying goes, “Those who drive like a**hole, look for any loophole they can.”

  28. hector says:

    the only reason he got off the hook is because he included the title “United States Army Veteran” under his name. the hearing examiner probably felt bad for the guy and decided to dismiss the charge. If anyone else had written that simplistic statement, that person would certainly still be going to court and paying the $250.

    • Randy says:

      Wrong hector. It works NOT a few times or sporadically. Asserting your constitution rights works every time. Just like when you invoke Miranda rights to keep your pie hole shut.

  29. Jade says:

    I was so shocked to read the blog through someone’s Facebook. What a bad way to teach people to fight against the law when you are the guilty party. I totally agreed with Barney’s comment on 12-11-2013. There is no victim until someone gets hurt. You were lucky that no one got hurt in your case. What will you feel if someone speed and hurt you or your family? If you did speed and got caught, you should face the consequences.
    Remember the conscience, not the law should define one’s behavior/action. The world will be much better if we all teach our children the right way instead of argue/cheat their way out! It’s so important to teach the children right from wrong when they are little.

  30. Scott Crawford says:

    You sir are a jackass, you broke the law and were caught. Instead of showing HONOR and INTEGRITY ( sound familiar? They should, considering they are some of the Army values you obviously didn’t learn.) You instead decided that you were too good for the law. What happened to being responsible for your actions? I guess that is someone else’s responsibility. Next time you try some bullshit like this do me the favor of not using you supposed military status when commuting such cowardly acts of fraud. You are a disgrace to the honorable men and women who serve this country.

  31. max says:

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  33. Savannah says:

    Greetings! Very helpful advice in this particular article!
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  34. DocHoliday916 says:

    In response both to Jason’s posting on 11 Dec 2013 and April’s posting on 10 May 13; both of you agregiously miss the Constitutional protections. First, the burden of proof rests with the State to prove guilt. It is the driver and NOT the car who has Constitutional protections under the 5th and 6th Amendments. Life liberty and property may not be taken without due process of law. Accordongly, if the state cannot prove WHO was driving the car at the time of the violation then where is their case to take money from the owner of the car? Even if the owner is driving the car, he/she is not compelled under the 5th Amendment ot give testimony against themselves OR should be complelled to do the State’s job and provide a name of whoever was driving the car at the time of the alleged violation. Since when was a Constitutional protection considered a loophole? JAson and April’s point of view portend a dangerous erosion of civil liberties protecting the indivuidual against the erroneous practices of a State that wishes to shortcut due process through intimidation.

  35. bob says:

    man up and pay your fine and stop speeding.

  36. […] to just submit and pay a fine like the majority of people do in this country, unfortunately,” he wrote on the Virginia Cop Block blog. “I am in the habit of not taking ‘plea deals,’ and I am […]

  37. […] to just submit and pay a fine like the majority of people do in this country, unfortunately,” he wrote on the Virginia Cop Block blog. “I am in the habit of not taking ‘plea deals,’ and I am […]

  38. […] to just submit and pay a fine like the majority of people do in this country, unfortunately,” he wrote on the Virginia Cop Block blog. “I am in the habit of not taking ‘plea deals,’ and I am […]

  39. Angela says:

    How would this work for a red light ticket? Along with photos, there is also a video…Is it still possible to get around that?

  40. khope says:

    Someone needs to mention that in certain states this will not work. Illinois has a law that states only the license plate needs to be seen and the owner of the car will receive the ticket, no matter who is driving. People skipping out on tickets like this is the reason why more states are becoming more and more strict. If you were doing say, 15 over, just man up and pay it. If you were only 5 over, then whatever, that’s not ticket worthy. But if you’re doing this because you don’t agree with the law, you should keep in mind that the absolute worst way to protest a law is to refuse to follow it. For those with legit proof that this system is flawed, petition your congressmen. Include actual facts and statistics in a petition and start gathering as many signatures as possible. Enough people speak out and protest the RIGHT way, and change will (someday) be made. Continuing to not follow the law as a form of protest is just going to get you in possible trouble and show lawmakers that the law has a point.

  41. […] to just submit and pay a fine like the majority of people do in this country, unfortunately,” he wrote on the Virginia Cop Block blog. “I am in the habit of not taking ‘plea deals,’ and I am […]

  42. skylar says:

    I copied this letter and changed the wording to fit my red light ticket of $160 in Haines City, Fl. I got a letter responding that I had a court date scheduled. I can either pay the original fine plus $50 to cancel my court appearance or show up and risk having to pay $250 in court fines if I lose. Now I’m concerned about what to do.

  43. Dougie says:

    Before anyone in the District of Columbia relies on this, you should read the Agomo case, which is directly on point. The case stands for the proposition that photo violations constitute civil and not criminal penalties and therefore are not bound by the constitution. I disagree with the reasoning, but I know from experience in unsuccessfully fighting a photo violation that the arguments referenced above will not work.

    Here is the case: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=8575727632696898671&q=%22916+A.2d+181%22&hl=en&as_sdt=4,9,130,140

  44. Beat it says:

    Thanks for the tip. Beat my ticket for the exact same camera. Used the basics of your letter, but changed it a bit. Asked for more back up info. It is hard to find that you can fight these tickets without having to pay in advance or having to appear in person.

  45. Jen M says:

    Received citation for $100 for Speeding 11-15 over limit in 01/2014. Sent the above letter (updated with my info, of course). Received letter this month 03/2014 claiming still liable – fine assessed.

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